NEW interview with Sage Sundi -- secrets revealed about ToA

[nanatsu]

Re: NEW interview with Sage Sundi -- secrets revealed about ToA

There is too many melee, there's only 6 spots in a party. Only 2 of them are open for melee in a typical party setup. How many melee does FFXI have? 7? And they're basically defined only to do one thing: damage. You have only two tank classes: Ninja and Paladin (yes, Warrior and Monk can tank, but in normal circumstances they typically don't). So now we have 3 spots left one for caster damage, one for support, and one for main healing. BLM, SMN, and RDM can all fill the caster damage slot to some capacity, SMN, RDM, BRD can all fill support, and SMN, RDM, and WHM could fill up the healing slot as well. While my example isn't perfect, I think you get the idea?

The thing is, the casters are far more versatile than the melee. There's basically 7 classes that compete for two slots in the party, and some of those melee are far more efficient at doing damage than the other melee. While casters are all extremely efficient at at least one of the typical "caster" slots, and most of them can fill roles other than the one they are "most suited" at quite well.

This is only a problem because of how players have decided to play the game. You don't need 3 support, 1 tank, and 2 DD for VT or T mobs. You don't even need 6 members for VT and T mobs. The classic 6 man setup is the most efficient and safe setup for IT mobs onry, and that's only in most instances not all. It's the players that decided on the the 3 support/2 dd/1 tank setup. It's the players that decided IT+++ was the best way to exp. It's the players that decided that only certain subs can be used in order to most efficiently take down IT++++. If you fight VT and T all of those things start to break down. All of a sudden things begin to become a bit more flexible. Melees can use mage subs and not cause the deaths of party members. Mages can use melee subs and more safely fight alongside the melee. And the developers already mentioned they never meant for players to be IT++++ whores but we are. It's something that they have to deal with. But the way the game is played and the way the classes are used is a player created problem.

[Pounce]

Re: NEW interview with Sage Sundi -- secrets revealed about ToA

"When in Rome, do as Romans do"

There are a LOT of options in FFXI. The game itself is incredibly flexible.

Unfortunately, the community is for the most part, not.

And because FFXI requires forced grouping, you have no choice but to play by the community's rules. (Unless you're one of the lucky few who are blessed with static parties, or have large, organized LS that can consistently form internal parties)

I've played a fair number of MMORPGs, and I have to say FFXI's community has the most sheep-like mentality out of all of them. Most pickup groups only want to do the tried-and-tested proven methods. Even hint at trying something new and your prima-donna mages disband like fleas off a wet mithra. And if you're lucky enough to get a pickup group that is willing to take some risks, you better make sure everything goes perfectly lest you end up gracing people's blacklists.

Other than what very few bugs or exploits there are, almost *all* of FFXI's problems stem from the community, not the game itself.

It doesn't matter if you can do Plan B instead of Plan A if 99% of people only want to do Plan A.

S-E has two choices.

1.) Pray and hope the community shapes up to their "vision"

or

2.) Forcibly guide the community towards their "vision"

So far, S-E has tended to do #1 a lot more than #2, but when it became obvious #1 was failing miserably, they've done #2 every now and then too.

Melee DDs LFG for hours is NOT good game design. LFG does NOT promote community and team spirit. Being in a group does. There is a BIG, difference between LFG and being in a group.

No one is suggesting FFXI should become less team/group-oriented. People who hate LFG are suggesting the exact opposite. Reducing/elminating LFG woes will make the game more team/group-oriented because more people will be in groups more often, thus increasing the amount of time you are actively socializing with other people instead of twiddling your thumbs while semi-AFK in your mog house.

[nanatsu]

Re: NEW interview with Sage Sundi -- secrets revealed about ToA

I honestly don't think the community will ever change its tune. If things are ever going to change, SE will have to force things to change. Unfortunately I don't think that's going to happen either. So I think we're just stuck with how things are.

I don't think the expansion is going to change that.

[Manatra]

Re: NEW interview with Sage Sundi -- secrets revealed about ToA

Pounce, you are my hero

[Pounce]

Re: NEW interview with Sage Sundi -- secrets revealed about ToA

I honestly don't think the community will ever change its tune. If things are ever going to change, SE will have to force things to change. Unfortunately I don't think that's going to happen either. So I think we're just stuck with how things are.

I don't think the expansion is going to change that.

Ah, but you see, S-E has a precedence of forcing change, though they're not always quick about it.

S-E probably has taken notice of the popularity of games like WoW. After years of totally ignoring more casual players, is it a coincidence that S-E has implemented a lot of changes to make the game a lot more "casual-friendly" this past year?

Competition encourages innovation, and I think we're seeing that happening, and will continue to see it happen.

No one is saying FFXI should become a clone of WoW, but it's not a bad thing if S-E starts to take a long hard look at some of the long-standing problems and start addressing them.

[nanatsu]

Re: NEW interview with Sage Sundi -- secrets revealed about ToA

Ah, but you see, S-E has a precedence of forcing change, though they're not always quick about it.

S-E probably has taken notice of the popularity of games like WoW. After years of totally ignoring more casual players, is it a coincidence that S-E has implemented a lot of changes to make the game a lot more "casual-friendly" this past year?

Competition encourages innovation, and I think we're seeing that happening, and will continue to see it happen.

No one is saying FFXI should become a clone of WoW, but it's not a bad thing if S-E starts to take a long hard look at some of the long-standing problems and start addressing them.

Well my point is not that FFXI is going to become a clone of WoW. I'm pointing out the fact that the community dictates how jobs will be played, regardless of the changes SE implements. They've dropped their hints here and there. RDM armor with enmity and vit. SAM stuff with more def and enmity. Armor that gives a war some bonus when they use a whm sub. But players won't take the bait. I don't really have an argument with FFXI becoming a WoW clone anymore. That argument only got heated up in response to someone else and a bunch of confusion with a comment they made.

What I'm saying now, is that in terms of party roles and player's choices of how to play the game I don't see the players changing their attitudes much and I don't see SE trying to force us to diversify ourselves. And of course it's not bad if SE takes a look at problems and tries to fix them. I never said that SE adding some sort of solo play is a bad thing. I said that switching completely to solo play and forsaking the focusing on party play was bad, and I only said that because someone mentioned they'd rather be able to solo like you can in WoW. kay?

[tazirai]

Re: NEW interview with Sage Sundi -- secrets revealed about ToA

Ah, but you see, S-E has a precedence of forcing change, though they're not always quick about it.

S-E probably has taken notice of the popularity of games like WoW. After years of totally ignoring more casual players, is it a coincidence that S-E has implemented a lot of changes to make the game a lot more "casual-friendly" this past year?

Competition encourages innovation, and I think we're seeing that happening, and will continue to see it happen.

No one is saying FFXI should become a clone of WoW, but it's not a bad thing if S-E starts to take a long hard look at some of the long-standing problems and start addressing them.

True../agrees

[Dragonsword]

Re: NEW interview with Sage Sundi -- secrets revealed about ToA

LFG does NOT promote community and team spirit. Being in a group does. There is a BIG, difference between LFG and being in a group.[/b]

Very well said Pounce. ^^)b

SE must have observed the problem. The scenario of players spending hours lfg is also against their "advise" to players whenever we log in. It may also be one of the reason y ppl switch over to WoW or others.

FFXI has rich contents, nice storelines, even in minor quest, they get u involved emotionally. In partying, its just so fun, yea, y go play online if u dont interact with ppl. But before that happens, there is a prior question to that: y go online if I need to lfg for 2-4 hours for having this exact party fun ~.o .

This become a major drawback to FFXI, maybe we defend it because we have became a hardcore ourselves. We log in for 8 hrs, well anticipating the first 4 hrs will be on lfg while we syn, fish or hang out. We, who have been in game for so long and got so involved, must realize that this is way not a norm to most ppl, and many many ppl simply cannot afford the time.

We all want the fun and the game to move on, without players, the game is nothing. A well-rounded game should have the facilities to cater for casual and hardcore players. With the extra quests to perfect our weapon and armors at endgame, hardcores sure will find the motive to log on. But we must consider others, what is their motivation and incentive ^^ .