Acc Vs. Dex

[kuu]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

Sorry to derail the topic of the thread here, but Kuu, I wanna ask you where you got the idea that critical hits never miss in this game. It's not that I'm saying you're wrong, because I certainly don't know enough about the underlying workings of the game to say that I'm always right or have all the answers. I'm just confused.

The WAR 2hr Mighty Strikes makes all of your attacks critical hits doesn't it? Yet WARs still miss when it's up. Why is that so if Critical Hits always hit their targets?

Good point, and I don't have an answer.

I do know that SA is generally consider very close to crit, as something close to thf main is crit+dex bonus, and /thf = crit no dex bonus.

And SA never misses.

I also know when I hit stuff I normally can't hit, ie: skilling up, crits lands.

[Macht]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

I know the theory you are talking about Kuu which is a majority of the reason to the belief that Crits never miss. I still don't agree to it though with basis of what Inutrunks said.

Basically it's thought that Crits never miss because of SA and the fact of fighting very strong monsters well beyond your skill that you are likely to only crit or miss no normal hits or far fewer.

I kind of find this a little flawed and that what's really happening is 2 things. First of is that SA is an ability so it wouldn't be unheard of that it would have 100% hit, since it does as long as you are directly behind the monster. Second is that chance of crit must be factored before factoring if it's a hit or miss. The end result is if your skill is horrible enough then your chance to hit starts to become as bad as your crit rate, end result is that the two factors become so close that when 1 happens the other also likely happens.

This likely ends up giving the illusion that everytime you hit the stronger monster that it is only with crits.

[kuu]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

I know the theory you are talking about Kuu which is a majority of the reason to the belief that Crits never miss. I still don't agree to it though with basis of what Inutrunks said.

Basically it's thought that Crits never miss because of SA and the fact of fighting very strong monsters well beyond your skill that you are likely to only crit or miss no normal hits or far fewer.

I kind of find this a little flawed and that what's really happening is 2 things. First of is that SA is an ability so it wouldn't be unheard of that it would have 100% hit, since it does as long as you are directly behind the monster. Second is that chance of crit must be factored before factoring if it's a hit or miss. The end result is if your skill is horrible enough then your chance to hit starts to become as bad as your crit rate, end result is that the two factors become so close that when 1 happens the other also likely happens.

This likely ends up giving the illusion that everytime you hit the stronger monster that it is only with crits.

That would would if crit were extra damage, though most people consider crit an attack ignoring defense, such that it maybe it's a different variable that takes over normal, i.e = no miss.

But as usual, we can only guess.

[Arcaus]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

First post! Yay!

My 2 cents: I thought that when you checked a mob, what it tells you depends on your Weapon skill, not your direct Acc. Always been the case with me from my own, if little, experience.

[Ziero]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

When you check a mob, your weapon is the base of what it will con as. But you can directly change it's con by equiping certain gear or using certain abilities on it. Like using shiled break on a Snipper at the dunes can change it from IT high eva to just IT.

It's your Str/Att and Acc/Dex vs the mobs Vit/Def and Agi/Eva so changing any of those numbers can change it's check.

[Drogen_Shomuro]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

That would would if crit were extra damage, though most people consider crit an attack ignoring defense, such that it maybe it's a different variable that takes over normal, i.e = no miss.

But as usual, we can only guess.

I'm willing to bet that a critical hits grant an attack boost, based on some observations: (assuming that criticals funciton the same way for all creatures)

Observations:
-When fighting really tww mobs, my wyvern will hit for the exact same amount even if that hit criticals.
-my wyvern's damage will vary a little from tww to tww(it'll hit one mob for 180, 180, 180 then a different mob for 178, 178, 178)
-on mobs that are not so tww, my wyvern's dmg will vary like any other normal hit
-on mobs that are not so tww, my wyvern's criticals will land for more dmg

Inferences:
-My wyvern's hit for the exact same amount on tww mobs because its damage is capped, some way or another.
-This cap is not a static cap that applies to all mobs, since the cap will vary from mob to mob
-My wyvern's crits don't add dmg on tww mobs because his dmg is already maxxed for this mob.

So either:
-Crits add raw dmg to hits, and my wyvern's cap is determined by mob's level, or str-vit, or something
-Crits add atk to hits, and my wyvern's atk-to-mob's-def ratio is already maxxed, effectively creating a cap based on mob's lvl, str-vit, or something

I can't say if this is the same for PCs, since even on lvl 1 mobs I don't seem to be hitting a dmg cap, unless it's just really, really high.

I think I'll go pound on some lvl 1 mobs and get some data

[Caspian]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

Yeah, you should be hitting a cap on very too weak mobs. I know before the patch I could easily hit it on my rng. I had to go to mobs on the teens or lower, but it was there. You had to use zerk, and even then there was a cap for it too. At that lvl, if I recall correctly, even adding str only adds a direct translation of 1 point of dmg for every str added on. You may have to use a weapon with no extra stats, i.e. no +atk or +str, in order to get a static number.
I dont believe that all attacks are capped. I'm about 99% sure that ws's aren't capped. So, you should see a huge difference in reg attack dmg and ws dmg.
Good luck!

[WiseHokie]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

Sorry to be off topic, but back to how AGI can or cannot affect shield:

The rest of our gear was quite similar (and had been up to that point)...the tried and true PLD AF. Rings were either mp+, jelly ring, herc's ring, or vit.

We both used the kite-type shields and I'm almost certain we both had the same shield.

Just wanted to throw out a bit more info in case anyone could find it useful. I've seen a solo shield skill up guide for pld that emphasized +agi gain, which doesn't seem to match up with what I've experienced.

AGI will lead to more evasions (not all that likely for galka PLD especially) and more total blocks (parry + shield uses?). This may be true, but the ratio of these total blocks will lead to increased parry over shield with +agi gear (drones, etc.). Any PLD would want both to be as high as possible, but parry will cap much lower than shield ever will.

Nice info/discussion on acc/dex though