Acc Vs. Dex

[Armando]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

Further, every melee knows there is some sort of level modifier that affects hit% that can't be explained by the difference in dex alone.

Never heard of that before.

In the end much of what you choose is all a balance.

Quoted for truth. I partied with too many people (especially rich SAMs and WARs) going Dual snipers with Federation Kote/Royal Squire's Mufflers and eating sushi in the 37-45 range (Vernerer pre-40 of course) and I was outdamaging them badly because they were going overkill on their accuracy and had little to no +STR and +Attack. I don't think people should even think of sushi pre-50, actually...especially if you don't have berserk. It was VERY noticeable on SAM/THFs. You NEED some sort of attack boost to go with that accuracy.

[Macht]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

Lol, if you want a quote like that there's one that's said in "Ghost in the Shell" the first movie. Goes something like "Specializing to much breeds weakness, there is greater strenght in balance" from Motoko Kusanagi.

[JeanRC]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

In the end much of what you choose is all a balance. A good example to show this is a thread on Rampage done before.

New Rampage/Decimation evaluation on VT

You can see clearly that his focus to push Accuracy reduced the effectiveness damage wise, his gear and setup was hitting a point were less focus to accuracy on the gear and more to attack/STR benefited better.

at that thread stated above, pls remember that the mob he test on is a VT
people must remember that if you test on a IT or IT++ then the result of the test will be different. since without acc gear and fighting IT mean u will miss a lot more compare to VT.

Also take note that he is lv75. under normal level up party, which mean the dhamel he is fight there is for level 68+ PT i think ( may be wrong here )
so for a lv 68+ melee his skill wount be as high as what the lv75 have and also the gear he can use and also the str acc dex and so on.
so the result may different a lot due to all this factor.
Why am i point all this here is because most of the time we are comparing this is for level up party.

[Ziero]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

The way I see it is based on the old Basic D&D style of accuracy.

In basic D&D you determine whether you hit or not by comparing two things

1) The monsters Armor class, which was basically it's def/Eva. The lower this number was the harder it would be to hit.

2) Your hit role table, a set of numbers that you compared against the monster AC

You start off by rolling a 20 sided die. you then take that number, find it on your Hit roll table and match it against the AC of the mob. If you rolled high enough you would hit it, roll too low and you miss. Now if you rolled a 20, it was a guarenteed hit, all the time. But if you roll a 1, it woud always miss. (forgive any incorrect info on D&D btw, been a few years since I played it)

Or to put it in much simpler terms, it's percentage based. Every time you swing a random number is rolled by the computer on your part. This random number is compared to the mobs eva/agi and if the random number is higher then the mobs stats you hit. What dex/acc could do, and this is only my theory, is modify both the random numbers rolled for you and the range at which these random numbers can go between.


With Dex for example: With no dex+ stuff you have a 30% chance at missing, a 60% chance at hitting and a 10% chance at Criting. Equiping a set number dex can then change the curve, so now you have a 25% chance at missing, a 60% chance at hitting and a 15% chance at criting. By increasing dex, you increase your Crit hit rate, and since crits alway hit you increase your acc%.

Now with Acc: The mob you are fighting has an Eva rating of 200 (random number btw), so you need a roll of 200+ to hit it. Acc can directly increase the number that the com rolls for you. So if the com rolled a 199 in your favor and you had no acc gear, you'd miss. But if you had +2 acc, that roll would become 201 and would be a hit.

These are all theories of mine and have no real method of being tested. Nothing stated here is fact and unless we crack open FFXI's code and try and figure what it means nothing I said can be proven. But in theory it makes sense. Dex does increase your acc in a way, but Acc itself has more of an effect on every hit.

Personally, I'm a str/att whore. I go for Dmg first before anythiing else, as long as I can hit effectively. Most parsers show that no matter how much acc gear you have, you will still be able to miss mobs of any lvl. And that the more acc you pile on the less useful it become, a diminishing returns effect. So as long as I can get 85% or so acc in a fight, I'll start to pile on Str/att gear to give each hit more umph. I feel that this is the best way to be a melee.

But I could be wrong =/

[Nevil]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

There's still a lot we don't know about ACC. One day I was bored and decided to see if ACC really is the only factor that affects hit rate. So, with my 55 DRK, I went to Korrolaka Tunnel and took off my Great Sword (lvl 178). That left me with Hand-to-Hand as my main skill (lvl 55). I checked a bat, but they still checked "low eva". So I removed most of my gear, and finally managed to get it to con "high evasion". I thought that once I started to fight it I would at least miss 50% of my strikes, but I didn't. I never missed. I then fought a Giant, and I only missed once. Fought a Spider, and again my ACC was through the roof. So the only conclusions I can up with is that DEX and ACC work on a curve similar to STR and ATT, lvl difference between you and the mob matters more than we might think, or that your DEX versus the mob's AGI also factors into the hit rate equation.

[Deci]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

stacking dex is good for jobs that have WS based on dex...i dont have much faith in it otherwise. ive seen Crit build warriors that have 75% acc with like +40 dex. i just do str and acc since all my was are str or vit(mnk). just stack the stat that is your primary ws, and if you cant get enough acc from that, eat sushi

[Ziero]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

Most physical WS have Str as the main modifier

[WiseHokie]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

I know the original topic is acc vs. dex. but I had to register to put in my thoughts on agi boosting parry/shield.

First off, my main job is 73 PLD (galka). Back in Bibiki Bay once, another galka bud of mine was also same lvl PLD as I was, we were in the high 60s.

To make long story short, we decided to compare earring/ring equips and our sword/shield/parry levels. I wore 1 drone and merc. earring, he stuck with 2 drones. My shield/parry were opposite mirror images of his. My shield was over 200 (but not much over) with a very deficient parry, while his parry was close to my shield lvl, but his shield was only around 5-10 lvls above my parry.

Based on our earring slots (1 drone/1 merc vs. 2 drones) and the fact that this was both our highest job (so the parry/shield deviances we had can't be contributed to capping them on other jobs), I strongly feel that AGI has nothing to do with shield...at all. AGI has an obvious effect on parry, but has no or negative effect on shield.

The mysterious SE speeches may hold some water, but after this occurrence with me and a fellow galka PLD at the same lvl, extended play with similar gear, I think it's clear that agi boost of only +3 has signifcant impact on parry, but NOT shield. /rant

[Macht]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

Correct WiseHokie, any current tests I'm sure will be hard to tell given that also you shouldn't forget that Shield system and how it works has also changed. In effect to not only testing to parry but also testing to other shield types seems to be a must, a shield of size 1 I would think to demonstrate more of an effect as what parry does were a shield of size 3 or higher may not display any noticable benefits.

[Ziero]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

From my understanding, larger shields block less often but reduce greater Dmg and smaller shields block more often and reduce less Dmg. Now a difference of 3 agi is no where near enough to see a truely drastic change in something so random as shield/parry so your test seems inconclusive. Especially since we don't know what other gear you had, what mobs you were fighting or what exact skill lvls you were at.

[amnclown]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

wow thats a lot of answers to filter through i appreciate all the help on my delima though. i have a lvl 32 currently drg/16 war, i have both dex and acc equipment on, i ve heard many rumors on what dex has realation with acc as well as other assumptions to the equation. i have figured i would just beef up both as that seems to work for me. i hit just as hard as a drk most the time and crit often. while i miss a lot on IT Baddies i see everyone else miss just as much and blame it on the diffculty of the baddie pt is fighting. i wish SE would make a board about this and answer it them selfs make mine and a few other pep i know life a little easier. thank you for the answers though i will consider them while i lvl drg.

[Macht]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

If you haven't picked it up yet already SE loves being enigmatic. Their vague descriptions such as Latent and Enhancment effects. As well as an unclear explination of why traits and abilities would need to be associated to an element as if the element has some possible control of sorts to it. Then also all the cryptic wording used quite often, it's quite clear SE creates all this mystery for a reason don't see why they'd just reveal it all without any needed reason to.

[DarkSephiroth714]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

So would elvaan be a good race for DRG

[kuu]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

Well there are some people with choice words for Drg class, but yea.

Elvaans str modifier is highest, and it's good for most DD classess. Don't take it as a sign of being better though.

If you haven't picked it up yet already SE loves being enigmatic. Their vague descriptions such as Latent and Enhancment effects. As well as an unclear explination of why traits and abilities would need to be associated to an element as if the element has some possible control of sorts to it. Then also all the cryptic wording used quite often, it's quite clear SE creates all this mystery for a reason don't see why they'd just reveal it all without any needed reason to.

If it weren't for the internet, no one would even know how to get the advance jobs much less AFs.

I remember when people were all saying how secretively and hard getting the SMN job was.

[nanatsu]

Re: Acc Vs. Dex

Sorry to derail the topic of the thread here, but Kuu, I wanna ask you where you got the idea that critical hits never miss in this game. It's not that I'm saying you're wrong, because I certainly don't know enough about the underlying workings of the game to say that I'm always right or have all the answers. I'm just confused.

The WAR 2hr Mighty Strikes makes all of your attacks critical hits doesn't it? Yet WARs still miss when it's up. Why is that so if Critical Hits always hit their targets?