Is it ok to steal from RMT?

[Auron517]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

Furthermore, by our reasoning this leads us to that if we MPK/steal from them we will be disliked by the community. This is what many people who have voiced their opinions are this subject are probably now realizing, just because you THINK its right, doesn't mean you're not actually contradicting your own very motives.

Trust me, I'm pretty sure no one on my community is going to look down on me for giving the Gilsellers trouble, I mean why would they? You see, that's the thing, I don't think i'm right, I KNOW that what i'm doing is right. You can argue all you want about morals, and honor, but no one can argue that stoping the Gilsellers is a bad thing.

Unfortunately, Tienellia, not all of us have the fortune of having a linkshell that have multiple level 100 crafters in it. Lots of people spend weeks or even months or farming/crafting just to get what they need, because of their server's economic situation.

Not everybody has it that easy. So how dare you tell me that punishing the people that cause so much trouble for so many players is "dishonorable".

If there was a gang in your neighborhood terrorizing everyone and making life there miserable, how else are you going to help yourself besides the use of force? Write them a fucking letter? If MPKing RMT is wrong, then I don't want to be right, because atleast i'm doing to help other people, even if I have to break the rules to do it.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

I'm not furthering their exploitation of the game, i'm stoping it.

No your making it worse. Your "beliefs" are warped. If someone in a bar slaps you in the face and you walk away or call the authorities, the incident will be over with little fanfare.

If you get slapped in the face by someone in a bar and you retaliate by slapping back, it will only cause the person slapping you to become more irritated and retaliate. It could also lead to others in the area to become involved, both on your side or on the antagonists side. This could lead to a very large incident that will only end badly. This is the same situation you are saying will help the situation in game. It will not. I've played many MMO's and I've seen people like you take it into your own hands and retaliate against people they think cheat/bot/etc. It never turned out well.

Because if no one does anything the game will get worse. No, I may not make the Gilsellers go away, because as long as they have customers buying their gil, they'll be there. But when I go and MPK them, and make their entrie PT wipe, it's better than just sitting there, watching them, know that what they are doing at that exact second is going to affect me personally.

There are always options. Of course, some people don't want to implement other options. They would rather stick to what they wanted to do even if there is another path to take. You can farm somewhere else, you can hunt other mobs and get the gil to buy the item you need, you can do enms, you can do bcnms, and if you really can not stand the gilsellers you can quit the game. You can stay on the straight direct path even though there is a brick wall in your way. You can beat your head on the brick wall and try to get through even though its unlikely you will. Or you can choose the alternate path though it might take a bit longer to get where you wanted to go and you can even turn around and go back to where you came from. There are always options.

So, go to play FFXI and complain to your friends and ls about how fucked your server has become. Talk about how much you hate having to spend hours of time farming/crafting just to buy up to date equipment.

Well actually I don't farm. If you have a good list of friends and a good ls, you don't have to.

And I don't complain about the gilsellers because I see no reason to beat my head against a brick wall.

You can sit all you want and claim not to be on the level of the RMTs and wait for SE to take charge of their game and make them go away. But as for myself, I will "lower" my standards and steal, grief and MPK the shit out of any Gilseller I can find, because that's better than pissing and moaning and not have the will to go out and defend myself and those on my server from those that ruin our experience.

Thank you I will claim to not be on their lvl because I'm not. SE has taken steps to curb some of the aggravation people have been having with gilsellers. Of course, the giant leaps that everyone wants them to take, they never will take them. Gilsellers will NEVER go away just as people exploiting games with cheats/hacks/dupes will never go away. If you've played MMO's for any length of time you would realize this by now. It's part of the game. Like I said previously I don't piss and moan, I also do not retaliate against them, and by no means do they ruin my gaming experience.

It sounds as if this aggravates you quite a bit. In my years of playing MMO's there is one thing that I have learned, if your not having fun then you need to quit. In the end, this is a game and games are for entertainment. If your not being entertained and enjoying the game the majority of the time, then its not fulfilling its purpose.

[Tienellia]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

Yes Auron i know i am privladged to a very good linkshell. I made it that way when i helped open it, but it wasn't always like that. Everyoen started low. Most of the high level crafters took that up when it was less than 20 to further it for the purpose of making the shell self sufficient. So it wasn't always easy and we did, a lot of times, have to go and farm the items we needed.

Yes, i can say that you are wrong, but for the most part i just feel very sorry for you, as you are only ruining the game for yourself. People like you are the ones that will quit the game and blame it on SE not doing anything to stop the hacks and cheats in the game, but in reality, you are the one that has ruined the game for yourself. The gilsellers and buyers and not to blame for your lack of 'fun' and 'enjoyment' from the game. You can farm. I realize they are partially to blame for some of the inflation of items, but there are other people on the servers that jack up the prices just as much. It's because of greed, and it's not just RMT's fault.

The fact that you can not see past your one-sided opinion and look at the big picuture saddens me. you need to learn to be more open minded instead of finding one person or group of people in the game to blame all the problems on.

Yes, there are many problems in this game. SE does waht they can to fix it. There is a group of us on my server that have gotten numerous RMT to openly admit waht they do. We then call a GM and they are removed from the game, but you know, they always come back as a different character. The cycle is never ending. Play the game as it was ment to be played, have fun, and you will go far. Keep going down the path you are where you try to make yourself into a martyr for the 'good people' on the server and eventually you will burn out and quit. I hate seeing good players leave the game because they got one thing in their mind that they coudln't get past. I hope you are able to overcome your stubborness and closed mind. I'm sure that there are people on your server that will miss you when you leave if you don't.

[Auron517]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

Grandmom

I can't believe you posted what you did. Not only do you say that I don't have to right to cast justice on RMT, you're saying we should pretend that they don't exist?

That's such bullshit. Go to hunt a different NM, go to a different camping spot? Sure, I could do that, but that's not going to stop them from fucking the game up. What if everyone had that attitude?

No, i'm not going to quit the game, I have no reason to do so. I love FFXI, which is why I advocate giving the people that destory this game trouble, why is that so to understand?

SE isn't doing shit about RMT. You could say they are taking little steps along the way, but that's redundant. If SE was really serious about taking RMT out of their game they could. But as long as they are getting their thousands of dollars from their accounts, they're going to stick around.

Yeah, so go to your alternate camping/farming spots, and use your good friends and ls to help you get the gil and items you need. I'm going to stay over here...in reality where RMT makes FFXI a broken game, and fight back and refuse to surrender to the them.

Tienellia, I am far from ruining the game for my self. Who are you to tell me that I don't enjoy this game? FFXI is an awesome game, that I enjoy playing very much, but I refuse to just say "oh well, they're always going to be here...it's best I just wait for SE to do something about it."

Who in the hell is that helping? Even if you don't go out and MPK gilsellers how is what I advocate wrong? I am stoping them from getting the drops and doing the acts they do without fear of retaliation.

I'm not going anywhere, I'm not going to quit, I love this game, but when I see a Gilseller I give it my all to destory them because FFXI is a better place with out them.

[Keji]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

You're all assholes, and just as bad as the "mpking/stealing/etc." Gilsellers.

[ibroyles]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

Trust me, I'm pretty sure no one on my community is going to look down on me for giving the Gilsellers trouble, I mean why would they? You see, that's the thing, I don't think i'm right, I KNOW that what i'm doing is right. You can argue all you want about morals, and honor, but no one can argue that stoping the Gilsellers is a bad thing.

Sorry, but just by the reaction on this board, your above statement is ABSOLUTELY FALSE. How can you say that when the community is already looking down on you just for stating your views?? This thread is a perfect example of the "community's" view toward this subject. Also, you did nothing to revoke the previous moral/logical assumptions that would prove you are "right." Just saying you know you're right, does nothing but ignore a common logical calculus of the situation, and make you look ignorant. You can pretend to know, but you're really just telling yourself that.

Trust me, I know exactly where you're coming from, too. Just to say that what you're doing is "OK"(as the topic asks) is putting a false light on the subject. Is it "OK"(i.e. morally right)? no. Do people sometimes get pissed and MPK a gil seller for monopolizing their favorite camping spot? Yes. Is it sometimes hilarious? Yes. Does that necessarily make them evil? No. It just means that they jumped to action wihtout thinking out the possible consequences. Nobody is perfect.

I am a stern advocate against gil selling/gil buying/RMT in general, yet I still hold the assumption that to go around steal/MPK'ing them is morally wrong. Sure it may seem justified based on some community trust that they're breaking, but the community would break down as a whole if everybody had your views, trust me.

[Aeolus]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

Steal, kill, fight and take control yourselfs?

Sounds a bit like somewhere this race has been before and it didnt exactly get us anywhere. I cant really remember the last time stealing someting from a Thief stopped the thief from stealing again. Im sure if you killed a person part of a close team, like police, that the rest of the police wouldnt be after you. You fight back and its just going to get worse, I think bombarding SEnix with emails and constant GM calls everytime u suspect a gilseller, even without evidence, is going to take its toll, nothing happens instantly, be patient.

[Auron517]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

I'm sorry, but by the reaction of this board, the majority agree that it is okay to grief RMTs. I may be the only one posting his opinion, but that's redundent. Take a look at the poll, the numbers don't lie.

How am I just as bad as the Gilsellers?

Did I fuck up the economy? Hell no.

Do I monopolize NMs/Mobs? Nope.

I honestly don't see how I'm in the wrong here. MPKing is bad, but in this situation, it is okay, because of who is on the recieving of the MPK. You guys should stop and think who is hurting FFXI more; players like me who exact revenge on Gilsellers when given the opportunity for what they've done to the game, or RMT that cause massive inflation, unstable economy, bot, MPK, and KS anyone and everyone regardless who you are.

I simply don't understand it. Everyone has bad opinions about RMT. But when I say that you would grief them given the opportunity; I'm the bad guy...why?

[ibroyles]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

I'm sorry, but by the reaction of this board, the majority agree that it is okay to grief RMTs. I may be the only one posting his opinion, but that's redundent. Take a look at the poll, the numbers don't lie.

Ok my response about the community was directly challenging your notion that(and I quote...):

no one on my community is going to look down on me for giving the Gilsellers trouble

So, you are proven wrong. You say "no one," yet obviously some people on this board are looking down on you for your views(and we havn't even seen any actions which you may have committed...)

I simply don't understand it. Everyone has bad opinions about RMT. But when I say that you would grief them given the opportunity; I'm the bad guy...why?

Notice in my post I made an explicit point to say that you are not necessarily evil if you MPK somebody. Nobody is saying you're a bad guy. Simply put, your actions, if generalized to the entire populace of the game, would create an unfair atmosphere. Its that simple, please think outside the box, and think of what possible consequences your actions may have on the community.

[Tienellia]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

How am I just as bad as the Gilsellers?

Did I fuck up the economy? Hell no.

Do I monopolize NMs/Mobs? Nope.

Hmm, when you mpk them and take their mob for the item and go to sell it on the AH, do you sell it at the price it was before the economy became so insane with prices? or do you sell it for the ah price because the price looks good and is a lot?

I bet you are just like everyone else. You sell at the ah price because it is higher. You won't do what you can to lower the prices becaus that means that you make less on your sell. You are no better than anyone else in the aid in screwing up the economy on the servers. It's called inflation and greed. Two very natural parts of the human race, as discusting as they both may be.

Now, i'm not saying that you are alone in your feelings that mpking gilsellers is correct. But i garuntee that most people that belive the same way that you do are very self-right selfish individuals that were never taught morals or ethics a day in their lives. It may be an online game and have nothing to do with IRL, but there are still a set of values that are instilled into most players, none of which you posess.

You may love this game and have no intention atm of quitting, but you are not playing the game as it was ment to be played, therefore are not enjoying it to its fullest. And that makes me pitty you.

[little ninja]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

YOU WANT RMT TO LEAVE. STOP BUYING THE DARN GIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


seriouly 99.5% play to make money an nothing more. if players stop buying it. RMT would die in a matter of weeks. dont blame RMT traders anymore. blame those you call ls mates, an friend.

[lionx]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

Lets just say i dont really care who mpks, if i see anyone mpk on purpose then they are getting a GM Call no matter RMT, you, or that guy down the street. >_> That and i can also see the chaos that could break out of everyone does vigilante justice. The only problem i have are monopolizers and mpkers, every other RMT that doesnt bother you...i couldnt care less.

Also some people can "admit" to doing those things too. You really cant say what they are saying is a joke or something serious...its hard to tell.

[Auron517]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

You can save your god damn pity for someone who wants/needs it.

How can you automatically assume what I will do? You don't even know me. Yet, you can post about things you "bet" i do. If I were to come across an item that could be sold on the AH, yes, I would sell it at a reasonable price. Who are you to tell me that I wouldn't? Why would I spend my time condeming gilsellers, buyers, and other people that screw with the economy and do the same things that they do? How do I know that you don't also contribute to the unstable economy on your server? Wait, that's right, I don't know.

It's funny as a person with no morals or ethics, actually have respect enough for another person not to go randomly accusing people of things I have no possible way of knowing, ironic isn't it?

I'm starting to grow weary of this thread. I'm tired of having to read the same old bullshit over and over again reworded. My initial questions go unanswered and then other posters feel the need to try and feed me watered down speeches about morality and ethics.

No FFXI player is playing the game the way it's meant to be played. I'm pretty sure SE didn't intent for FFXI to have an economy so bad that it takes months and weeks for normal players just to get by.

I stand by my point, I'm going to try to stop RMT if I have to chance, no matter how many hypocritical uppity players say I have no "honor". And, If you have a problem with that, it is you that deserves pity, not I.

[DakAttack]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

By attempting to stop one problem you're creating another. -_-

[countbulb]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

Now, if we think we're better than them, there's no reason to lower ourself to their level. Whether it's for vengence or hatred. When some homeless shoot crap at our door, we don't go do the same thing at the footpath they sleep at right?

Very well said
Rather hypocritical if I claim that I would never do it myself, but I would certainly feel bad about myself stealing. Even from gil sellers.

--

As for MPK'ing the RMTs, I fail to see how it helps the FFXI economy and/or community in general. The only benefit I see is that it helps the MPKer to feel better by venting his/her hatred towards gil sellers.
And what about the buyers? They're the ones maintaining the existance of the sellers. Should we start to MPK them as well? If MPK'ing the sellers really helps, then MPK'ing the buyers should work wonders, yeh?


Frankly speaking, I've considered buying gil myself - though I never actually end up buying. Why? Because like many other players out there, unfortunately, I don't have that much time for FFXI. Doubtless many ended up buying gil and/or items. You can't possibly stop each and every one of them from buying gil, can you?

So, strictly in my opinion, the only way to "improve" the in-game economy is via competing with the RMTs. Perhaps breaking the monopoly by providing alternatives? Sadly, however, there seem to be no such things as alternatives to gaining the monopolised items. None as far as I know, at least.