Is it ok to steal from RMT?

[Rai]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

The poll results thus far confirm my worst thoughts, that too many people playing this game have questionable senses of honor. You can't do something wrong and rationalize it away, by saying you did it to a bad person so it's ok.

There is a slippery slope to morality, justify one bad act and it is easier to justify the next. Next thing you know these people will justify ripping off a former friend or LS mate because they said something that angered them.

[Kaickul]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

The argument I am seeing here is moral high ground of *Stealing is wrong, and do not lower yourself to the level revenge and stealing.*

The difference of viewpoint I have here, is people are imposing their morality on others, as if that is the universal law. Whatever happened to “Eye for an Eye”? Just sitting on the moral high ground with the presumption that, “They will see justice eventually.” seems pointless to me… they will never see punishment because there is no definable crime from a moral standpoint.

Just a few things before anyone makes presumptions, I do not mess with RMTs, I do not intentionally provoke them, I do not presume all RMTs are Chinese, and I know that RMTs wouldn’t exist if f**ktards from the “instant gratification” society didn’t buy gil. As for the O-hat thing, I don’t agree with that. I take the standpoint of “Don’t start nothing, there wont be nothing.”

But, I’m sorry, if an RMT MPKs me, KSs, or otherwise messes with me, I may not stalk them for the first chance to get revenge, however, if I do see an opportunity to get back at them in a similar fashion to what they did to offend me… I am going to take the opportunity.

To those posting that SE doesn’t care about RMT, I would have to ask… what about all the patches recently that changed Sniper Rings, Emp.Hairpin, Leaping Boots, and the recent overhaul of the fishing system? SE is doing something, but I don’t think GMs do enough due to policy which makes them useless.

[Auron517]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

Grandmom, while I respect your point, it is very circumstantial.

What if the prostitute in question was without STDs, and did her business in the privacy of her own home, by her own management, without the need of the said drug dealers? Agian, no one is affected, everything is fine and no one is bothered.

For your proposed situation to play out correctly, everything has to line up. The hooker has to have AIDs, the men must spread it, there has to be drugs involved, which cause crime and property values to go down.

And suppose I do go with your situation, and because of the Hookers, the whole city is affected. They police would go out and stop them from doing their activites BECAUSE they are affecting everyone.

The same principle applies to RMT.

Rai

Just because I advocate the MPKing of Gilsellers doesn't mean I believe you should go around MPKing every jackass you encounter when you play or every person you have an argument with. You talk about Honor, what honor do RMTs have? Yes, MPKing is bad, but when you do it to Gilsellers it's justified. Nevermind, the fact that they'd do it to you in a nanosecond without so much as blinking, what they do to FFXI is wrong.

Striking back agianst someone who harms you is not rational? What do you do when someone slugs you in the face? Hug them? I think not, the rational thing to do is to pick up a stick and break their fucking head.

[Tienellia]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

I realize that RMT really makes a lot of people angry, myself included, but stealing from them and trying to take matters into your own hands when SE won't do anything is just wrong all together.
That is a lot like you not liking the way your boss is running things when it comes to a certain employee, so since your boss wont' get rid of him, you take it in to your hands to get him to leave. Doesn't exactly work and can end up getting you into trouble in the long run.

[Rai]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

I have camped NMs against gil sellers, the worst thing they have tried to do to me is say bad things about my mother to which I blist them. If they were to try to MPK me, I would call a GM. The only people in game who have ever attempted to MPK me have all been NA players, regular punks and brats.

No one in RL strikes me in the face, if anyone comes at me brandishing a fist they are taken down before they are able to use it. So it is rational to elevate your crime over their's? They hit you which is Assault so you up the ante to Assault with a deadly weapon. It's better to be aware of your surroundings and eliminate a problem before it gets out of control. Most often the type of person who would hit you in the face won't do it when you look them in the eyes and they know you see them coming. And for those who still try, well I prefer to strike faster than them. But either way once it's done you have to stand your ground and if need be let the proper authorities handle it from there.

But this is a game not RL. You can not say how one person you suspect to be or even know to be a Gil Seller hurt you as much as a punch in the face. It's a game, stop being overly dramatic, in the end we are all responsible for ourselves and no one else.

To say you have no choice but to act poorly because they act worse is BS.

I am saying the people who think it can be justified to mislead another player and in-effect steal an item from them are more likely to find an excuse to do it to a non-RMT player one day for something else they desire. It is nothing more than an excuse.

[Tienellia]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

I completely agree Rai, it's like stealing from a theif in real life. Once you do it one, you get a taste for it, and from then on it can become habit.

You can say you wouldn't do it to a legit person, but in reality if you have done it once, what keeps you from doing it again regardless of the person

[Keji]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

Tell that to the wife that was diagnosed with Aids because her husband had sex with an infected prostitute. Oh and the wife was pregnant and wasn't diagnosed until after the baby was born, now we are up to 2 additional people affected by one prostitute. I'm sure she slept with more than one man. So lets say that she had sex with 5 men a day for a month. Let's say 3 of the men each day had g/f's or wives and 1 out of the 3 were pregnant. So now she has affected the lives of TWO HUNDRED AND SEVENTY people in ONE month. And you say that a prostitute does not affect anyone else but her and the customer!!!??

And lets not forget that were prostitutes start to congregate, so do drug dealers. There go property values! Oops just affected all the people in a half mile radius! Oh and the crime rate goes up, so now we need a larger police force. Oops just affected the entire CITY.

Now to put this in context with FFXI using some of the comments I've heard people say about gilsellers. Well when they decide to camp or farm in an area, you can say there goes the "neighborhood" because farming for the regular player will become more difficult. They could possibly kill you too if they don't want you farming there. And if your camping for an item for a friend or ls member, well now the gilseller has affected two or more people that are connected to one another because they can mpk you or steal the spawn. So there you see go property values, possible death for you and others if your mpk'd, and more GM work for all the calls they receive about it. So yes, the original analogy was quite valid.

You're basically saying that if they aren't going to use the item, you should get it? Thats such BS.. they are taking the time to camp whatever it is and if you don't feel like taking your time to camp and compete with them thats your own fault. Regardless of what the person does with the item, its rightfully theirs. Doesn't mean its ok to steal from them, mpk them, etc. just because you're lazy

[Blood Red Poet]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

How does a hooker who has sex for money affect you personally? None.
How does RMT affect your FFXI playing experience? Plenty.

The AIDS MONSTER is going to eat your babies!

[Auron517]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

Rai

Wow, I think you took my "sluged in the face" comment a little to seriously. The analogy was supposed to help draw a comparison to something that most people have dealt with back to the game. I never said getting MPKed had the same effect as getting physically attacked.

I am being responsible for myself. I am stoping RMT from ruining my gaming experience. Everytime I steal/MPK from a Gilseller, I stop him from exploiting the game for just a little bit longer, seems pretty responsible to me.

What's the alternative? Sitting around on my ass, waiting for SE to do something about it while the Gilsellers are having a field day? (No Thanks)

I am saying the people who think it can be justified to mislead another player and in-effect steal an item from them are more likely to find an excuse to do it to a non-RMT player one day for something else they desire. It is nothing more than an excuse.

Yet agian, your indictment is circumstantial. Just because one MPKs gilsellers out of self defense doesn't mean they'll eventually turn on other players. An excuse for what? To MPK and steal from people?
I'm pretty sure if I did have some sadistic desire to kill and grief someone, i'm sure it'd be more acceptable to take it out on RMT instead of, you know, players who actually contribute something positive to the community.

The AIDS MONSTER is going to eat your babies!

lol.

[Lacilie]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

Say my character is named "Angelic", simular to those Angel series RMT, yet I am not RMT, but as a person who doesn't know who I am, but know the famous "Angel"s, they would assume I am a RMT; so it is totally justified for myself, a non-RMT to be MPK, KS because of your paranoia?
Another example, if I am a player who rarely plays with others, even if I do, I only play silently in parties(solely for EXP, no rule in ToS said I need to talk to the world), I am content in my LS community alone; but I am poor, and I camp/farm a few weeks straight, not knowing who I am, little paranoid kids can MPK/KS me for "self defense"?

Think about how people judge RMTs, apart from those too famous to be unknown of:

-/anon
-High level.
-Camp long time(a few weeks).
-Doesn't talk to people.
-Doesn't speak English(99.9% of the EN community fail to tell difference between JP and CN)
-Camp in groups.
-Not famously known in the world(Such as myself who don't socialise with people often).

Many normal players satisfy the said conditions though, I always grab my LS to camp/farm with me, so I am RMT? Or I should give up my friends in fear of the "witch hunters"?

American's police shoot people out of suspection? If they think you might rob the store, they can shoot you? If a girl that walked the same route as you, when you go home, without knowing who you are, if she believes you are a rapist, she can shoot you for "self defense"?
Those might be a little too extreme for a game, but the concept is the same. You are MPKing, KSing someone for misunderstanding, suspect, or paranoid. If everyone begins their mistrust, FF will be screwed.

The problem is gil buyers, the gil buyers are encouraging the gil sellers to farm more. It's a market, you need buyer to sell. Best way to stop RMT is to stop gil buyers, yet it is so impossible.

[silentsteel]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

The problem is gil buyers, the gil buyers are encouraging the gil sellers to farm more. It's a market, you need buyer to sell. Best way to stop RMT is to stop gil buyers, yet it is so impossible.

the summing up of the whole thing in one scentence, Great job (^_^)b

[Lacilie]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

Actually the credit should go to Tan'O

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...9&postcount=17

[Deathguise]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

I say no, it brings us down to their level even.
And it won't help their attitude to us either.

[Caspian]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

Say my character is named "Angelic", simular to those Angel series RMT, yet I am not RMT, but as a person who doesn't know who I am, but know the famous "Angel"s, they would assume I am a RMT; so it is totally justified for myself, a non-RMT to be MPK, KS because of your paranoia?
Another example, if I am a player who rarely plays with others, even if I do, I only play silently in parties(solely for EXP, no rule in ToS said I need to talk to the world), I am content in my LS community alone; but I am poor, and I camp/farm a few weeks straight, not knowing who I am, little paranoid kids can MPK/KS me for "self defense"?

Think about how people judge RMTs, apart from those too famous to be unknown of:

-/anon
-High level.
-Camp long time(a few weeks).
-Doesn't talk to people.
-Doesn't speak English(99.9% of the EN community fail to tell difference between JP and CN)
-Camp in groups.
-Not famously known in the world(Such as myself who don't socialise with people often).

Many normal players satisfy the said conditions though, I always grab my LS to camp/farm with me, so I am RMT? Or I should give up my friends in fear of the "witch hunters"?

American's police shoot people out of suspection? If they think you might rob the store, they can shoot you? If a girl that walked the same route as you, when you go home, without knowing who you are, if she believes you are a rapist, she can shoot you for "self defense"?
Those might be a little too extreme for a game, but the concept is the same. You are MPKing, KSing someone for misunderstanding, suspect, or paranoid. If everyone begins their mistrust, FF will be screwed.

The problem is gil buyers, the gil buyers are encouraging the gil sellers to farm more. It's a market, you need buyer to sell. Best way to stop RMT is to stop gil buyers, yet it is so impossible.

I realize some ppl do this, but like myself, several people in this thread have said they dont condone random MPKing, KS, or stealing from people out of paranoia or even flat out knowing that they RMT. I think i said earlier the only time I would even think of condoning it is when they MPK or KS you.
I've been watching the economy a lot, seeing who is selling what, and so on and so forth. From what I've seen, the select items that are outrageously expensive have very little to nothing to do with RMT'ers monopolizing NM drops and jacking the prices. 99% of the overpriced items are from greedy non gilselling, non gilbuying bastards who decide to charge an extra million or two b/c only a cpl other ppl have it. It also has something to do with the fact that a lot of people cant practice self control and set a limit on how much they're willing to buy an item for. (This is also evident on Ebay when people bid a lot more than an item is worth, just so they can win it). As someone said earlier, the overall inflation came from the massive influx of money from people npc'ing rusty caps. (Note: not all of these were bots, I know a couple people who just fished a helluva lot in a short period of time b/c the money was so good.)
Someone mpk's you? Call a GM. If you dont mind possibly being suspended for it, hell, mpk them. But dont take their items or go on an O-hat run then lot on their hat. Thats just a chicken shit way of trying to get back. Personally I wouldnt have gone on the O-hat run anyway. I'd rather not be associated with them at all. I'd be willing to bet that half the reason people steal from RMT'ers is b/c they want the item or the gil for themselves and know there will be little to no retribution for their actions.

[Auron517]

Re: Is it ok to steal from RMT?

Good point Lacilie, but agian, it is way too circumstantial.

So say your name was Angelic and there are RMTs running about with "Angelic" in front of their names, what makes you think you'll automatically MPKed?

And say you are a player who isn't as social as the rest of FFXI. Even if you're not constantly chatting up in a PT, you have to talk some time. That is, of course, unless you have the unique ability to make/join perfect parties where everyone operates like well oiled piece of machinery and nothing ever goes wrong, then yeah, you probably wouldn't have to talk.

And so what if you do farm for weeks on end? People identify RMTs and/or bots by the simple fact that they're always on, 24/7, seven days out of the week, no matter the hour or time of day. I'm pretty sure as a normal human being you'll have to log out some time.

Why is the worst case scenario always assumed will take place? Just because I support taking down RMT doesn't mean i'm going to shout "OMFG RMT!!11!!" and instantly MPK or KS someone with a weird name, unfamiliar LS, or is just out farming, or camping an NM. It can be done safely and intelligently or it could be handled badly. Hopefully, anyone that decides to become a vigiliante has to intelligence to do it right.