So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

[lionx]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

I think it would be fair to say that most people dont hate gilsellers themselves but more of some of their bad tactics that they do(some anyway). D: Most people could care less if they did, but if they monopolize etc etc..yeah >>;

[kuu]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

Funny, it actually seems that removing the Gilsellers from the main high-priced economy actually made it worse.

This is true because of what we call "out-sourcing".

Like real life, when someone can do it more then you, for lower wages, they are essencially "grunts".

Removing them may seem like a good solution(if not unfair greedy one) so they won't steal your jobs, but at the same time, it also increases the price of these goods because there is no one there to do the "dirty work".

People, especially ones that only think of themselves, forget the fact that what you make is what you sell, and a cycle that always go back to you. If you hike the price of your oil by 2x, you will end up paying more when you drive home at everyday because after refining, it comes back to you.

Gilsellers in ffxi, supply our vase world with low cost products. As more is taken out, supply falls, but demand hasn't.Thus prices have gone up. This is a text book case of "out-sourcing" if you believe Gillsellers are from third-world countries.

There are some good papers on this and a few books I think on the exact subject, usually dealing with immigrants.

[Yashin]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

I would like to speak up on gillsellers.

You are wrong to beleive thta all gillsellers MPK steal/camp mining points, etc.

On my server there is one that really dose make an exception of them. Maks.

She levels, she plays the game as well as works on it. She dosent steal mining points, she helps out the locals there. Where as the pair of Galkas there who camp and steal spots, really do play off as the example of bad gilsellers.

Its really up the the indiviual person, just like normal players of the game, to be an ass or a good person. Being a gilseller hasn't much to do with it at all.

Go to sky...gil sellers in sky have no mercy...they do everything in their power to piss you off...

[kamatari]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

tell your friend i kamatari thf 56 of hades logged in today and made 300k in less than 30 minutes. it was a fun lil monster that cant be spammed any more ^^

[ibroyles]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

Those arguing that Time =/= Money when playing FFXI clearly have no knowledge of even basic economics. Let me spell it out for you:

*Everything* has a cost. Yes, even free things. It is what economists call the "opportunity cost." Its very simple: the cost of what you do is something else you could've spent that time on. you sleep for 8 hours a night. During that time, you could have worked a second job for minimum wage, and gotten something like $40. thus, the opportunity cost for sleeping at night would be $40. Same thing with playing FFXI. If it takes you three hours to farm up 150k, but three hours of work to get enough cash to buy 1 mil from IGE, who's saying that is inefficient? Despite what you think, you do pay more than the monthly fee to play FFXI. you do essentially pay to farm. You pay to farm to get gil. Gil buyers pay to get gil, they only skip the middle part. Gil buying and selling is wrong, but many players see it as a way to save time, and yes, MONEY. I don't buy gil, I don't have the kind of job or money to buy gil, nor do I ever plan to, but saying that time =/= money for video games and that gil buying is always a total waste of money is just ludicrous.

K. Well, by logic, we can also assume money=money, by I guess what we'd call the "reflective" property of all things. Hence, if you are really that obsessed with money, then quit buying games and quit paying a monthly fee for them in the first place. Its really quite logical. In fact, if somebody was so obsessed with money to follow your guidelines per say, I doubt we'd even be chatting here on a forum.

It still just doesnt make sense to me. For someone to be that worried about "wasting their time" to be even playing a game in the first place. Do they really think they'll be getting some return on it? I know why I play it, is to get a feeling of satisfaction after accomplishing something. Whether that may be earning 1million gil, or getting Rank 10. This brings me to another point.... I dont mean to be antagonizing here, but for people who "don't buy gil" you fellows sure are convincing yourselves of why TO BUY GIL. I must ask a question. If you dont buy gil, then what is YOUR reason for not doing it? Given your arguments, it surely cant be that you can't afford it. If that was the case, well, wouldnt you take the time you spend farming to get your gil, and get a part time job to buy that gil to maximize your time? I hope I'm making sense here, because you're certainly not.

Double Post Edited:
Another thing to add. Gil buying isnt a total waste of money, its a total waste of a game.

[fuz]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

Buying gil is more efficient, if you have access to the money necessary to do so.

Perhaps the only reason people don't is a human tendency to altruisim--especially in a game where you are not getting something that is really as tangible as a physical purchase in real life. Aside from the fact that this game is hardly critical to your well being. (You're very messed up if it is) Some just don't really care all too much, espcially if they have decent gil making ability in the game.

However saying so, I think many people buy a little gil here and there, but only a few actually make large purchases in gil/accounts.

Think about it this way, you buy a game every couple months--nothing really extrodinary. You could also put that into gil if only playing ffxi at something like 2-3 mil every couple months. You would make a lot more than the majority of players.

[ibroyles]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

Buying gil is more efficient, if you have access to the money necessary to do so.

Actually, the point the previous posters were making about efficiency was that even if you dont have the money to do so, its still more efficient to buy gil than to earn it yourself. While I agree on its efficiency, there's still a problem with this line of thought. In baseball, the most efficient way to achieve great home run average is to take steroids, does that mean all baseball players should do so?

[fuz]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

The only time buying gil is more efficient is if the the time you spend making gil is faster than making real money yourself and buying more gil than what you can earn in-game. If you made less money in real life than the conversion from selling gil to real money--then damn it all, you should make and sell gil because it's better than your real life job. (At least in the short term)

But don’t confuse this message as justification to break rules; that should be obvious. However, the lure of acquiring gil so easily through a little RL work, which is difficult in game is hard to resist.

No one ever said that efficiency is justification for what you do, but you can bend it within a given set of rules. Suppose if the rules state that buying gil is perfectly acceptable, then I think everyone should if it is easier. If you're going to make things difficult for yourself, you need at the very least, a reason why. There is often little point in taking a less effective route if you don't have to.

As for baseball, I'm sure there are plenty that have at one time or another, taken steroids.

But for a better example, F1 racing is all about efficiency and exploiting what you have for all it's worth. Sometimes even technological loopholes are found, and provide a huge advanage until banned. It's because there is no advantage to make a race harder for yourself. You could get a stripped car devoid of electronic driving aids to be a 'driving purist' and have virtually no chance to win anything, but is there a point beyond that? You can yell at everyone being cheaters, but you’re perfectly free to use their methods too.

Similarly you could work had at one job and make $20 an hour, or you could go to an easier job and make $30 an hour but refuse because you think life is about working hard.

If your goal is to achieve something in the least effort possible (like most people) then by all means go for it as long as your methods are allowed.

But life for some is not being as efficient as possible. Like me; I just like to hang around in FFXI and I fish from time to time. It's not huge gil, but it pays pretty well when I'm not doing anything. I also condone gil-buying because it makes things harder for me--I don’t want to do the same amount of fishing only to see the price of high end equips go up another 10% in a week. Efficiency still maters to me, just that it’s not critical. But I’ll be damned if you think I won’t go after the most profitable fish possible when I want to buy something like a vermillion cloak.

[Rodin]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

Farming gil isn't against the ToS. So gilsellers aren't to blame. Buying gil is though. I'd like to say that the major inflation was caused by the fishing bots in Rabao. End of the story is that anyone who buys gil should be banned. I don't care who this includes. You break a rule that lets you play, in a term of service agreement that YOU agreed to, you should be suspended/banned for doing so. It is not your right to play the game. It is a priveledge. And if you go against what SE has put down as the guidelines, IMO, you should be banned, with no second chances. The thing is, it's VERY hard to find out who's been buying gil. So this won't ever happen.

[Caspian]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

Lol, I think it would be funnier if they could for sure figure out who was buying gil, and not suspend or ban them, but just take their money and gear. And just continue to take away any illgotten funds. Watch the naked, poor, dirty gilbuyers run around jeuno crying about how SE keeps taking their stuff all b/c they dont have the time to earn their money like everyone else.

On the topic of its efficiency: For some ppl, it could be better to buy the gil rather than farm it (doesnt make it right or any less despicable, just would take less time to do it.) The arguement against the efficiency is a lot of ppl need all the money they earn at their job to pay for those useful things like food and house payments. After you've worked 40 hours for the week a lot of jobs wont let you work anymore. In this case farming is more efficient simply b/c working at your job is nolonger an option.
Now, as for saying its ok if the person buying the gil doesnt have a problem with it: I think I made a post regarding this in another thread regarding gil-selling and buying. Just b/c you think its ok, doesnt necessarily make it so. If I think its cool to drive across the country and kill ppl it doesnt suddenly become ok for me to do it. Its still against the law. Just because someone has no personal problems with buying gil doesnt somehow make it nolonger go against the ToS. I dont think it says, "RMT's are ok as long as you're not going against your own conscience when doing so." Morals and ethics are not an all grey area and you get to decide what should be where.

[Sesshomaru]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

In baseball, the most efficient way to achieve great home run average is to take steroids, does that mean all baseball players should do so?

Is there not a major difference between baseball and Final Fantasy 11? If you bye gill do your muscles get stronger, lose of hair on head, increase of hair in pubic areas, depression, and possibly killing your self. So I believe its say to say that is not a very good anology.

[kuu]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

In baseball, the most efficient way to achieve great home run average is to take steroids, does that mean all baseball players should do so?

Is there not a major difference between baseball and Final Fantasy 11? If you bye gill do your muscles get stronger, lose of hair on head, increase of hair in pubic areas, depression, and possibly killing your self. So I believe its say to say that is not a very good anology.

Not to mention just because steroids is bad doesn't stop them from taking legal body enhancing products, like criten, and other legal body enhancing products. It's never was never fair in the first place. Plain old "working out" was never smart. There were always special diets and stuff.

Economics is built on the "most efficient way". Thus opportunity cost, everything has a cost, and it's upto the indiviual to decide which one is more "efficient". Gillbuying is violation of TOS, so thus, the cost of buying gill is possible ban, some people will take the risk, others will not.

[pearlsea]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

Actually, the point the previous posters were making about efficiency was that even if you dont have the money to do so, its still more efficient to buy gil than to earn it yourself. While I agree on its efficiency, there's still a problem with this line of thought. In baseball, the most efficient way to achieve great home run average is to take steroids, does that mean all baseball players should do so?

Exactly, players should find making gil fun, or at least enjoy the rewards that comes from your gil making, if i bought items with bought gil i wouldent feel the value and hard work involved from geting the item otherwise. I couldent give jack about efficiency since by playing the game in the first place is extreamly unefficient.

[fuz]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

Problem is that you want to go out and fight cool things and have fun battles, not farm hours upon hours for gil. Keeping the farming/crafting to a mininmum is why people go for the most efficient and effective gil aquiring methods. It's difficult enough that people find RMT more attractive.

Even I feel tempted by it from time to time. When you're just a mil or so short (about 2 weeks of fishing for me) of that shinny new piece of euipment... man it hurts, but I just keep fishing and daydreaming of when I'll get it.

[ibroyles]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

Is there not a major difference between baseball and Final Fantasy 11? If you bye gill do your muscles get stronger, lose of hair on head, increase of hair in pubic areas, depression, and possibly killing your self. So I believe its say to say that is not a very good anology.

For crying out loud...forget the analogy. Christ. This is why I usually steer clear of analogies, there will always be somebody who in their infinite wisdom will tell you the analogy doesnt fit the situation. Of course there's a major difference between baseball and FFXI, the analogy just drew lines between two games, and cheaters in the midst of both of them. If you cant understand that then just forget it, I made plenty of other solid points and for you to nitpick at the analogy is a little short sighted.