So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

[Yoh2]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

thats easy for people with gil to say it kinda sucks when you spend months doing something for gil then the gil seller show up and f it up

[ibroyles]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

We never said it wasn't cheating or was right. What we are saying is there logic behind why people buy gil and it is quite efficent.

Time=Money doesn't apply only to jobs. Any time you are awake, you could be turning time into money. Thus, time spent playing games and goofing around is lost money. Much like time spent farming gil for 4-5 hours a day for a month is lost time that could have been changed into real money. Take your time spent farming for gear, go get a real job for a week or a second job during your normal farming time. After a week you can buy all the gil you could have farmed in months and still have more real money than if you had spent that time farming gil.

I guess I can agree with you that buying gil is "efficient," and what I'm saying is who cares if its efficient? That this efficiency is brought upon by having somebody else take the time to play your game is just wrong. I don't care how much you argue this point, it still wont make sense in my mind why people buy gil, or why they even play this game if they want to just fork the money out to somebody else to play it.

Please explain to me how grinding away farming gil for hours on end of boredom is not like a very bad job? Heck, how is your gil earning any different from gil farmers who do that as a real job? Now that you have claimed all our points are invalid, why not try providing some valid points for yourself?

Wait, so time=moeny doesnt apply to only jobs then why are you now associating gil farming as being a job? It doesnt apply to only jobs, so don't mention jobs at all. Lets talk about games, and what makes them enjoyable in the first place. If you have issues with the way gil is earned in the game, then stop playing it. I hate to sound like an ass here, but that really is the way I feel. The reason my statement earlier may have seemed abrupt and without any points, is because this debate is old and worn out. In fact, if you read threads about this issue from a year ago you will see a lot of my points. (I was one of the heaviest "debaters" when this issue was still fresh, and I've worn tired of debating.)

My main issue here is that people will bitch and moan about how hard it is to earn gil in this game, so then instead of dropping this game like a bad habit, they will indeed pay MORE and MORE real money. Justified in their head as "its leaving the fun parts of the game." I'm sorry but, any other game that people dont enjoy a part of, they will simply stop playing. BUT, for some reason(that I cannot fathom), people will fork out money to people that didn't even produce this game to make it more enjoyable for them. Guys, get a game that you enjoy(maybe mario bros. suped up with game genie?), and stop flinging your REAL money out to people who have nothing to do with this game, and that bring detriment to it for many legit players. Thank you.

[Yoh2]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

i dont think its hard to make gil it just pisses me off when gilsellers start doing what im doing and then i need to find a new way to make gil or spend hours trying to find one not camped mining point

[Blood Red Poet]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

Buying gil is like buying rocks

And complainning to people how they are wrong for buying gil is like...

following around who bought those rocks and calling him names, instead of you know, actually living a your life. You are wasting your time on another human being, at least he got what he wants, a bunch of rocks.

So you don't need to be Mr.Spanish Inquistiter oh every freakin human being that doesnt have a problem with you.

Where's my garlic, god damn it?!

[Rones]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

Sure you can work 4 hours and make enough to buy 4981038409731890479012384 and 7 mil...But you work to support your life...not to support a game...If your only working to buy gil...then kill your self swiftly and quickly...

You just argued for buying gil. :sweat: If you really need all the money you earn to live, then wasting time farming for gil is the last thing you should be doing (as well as paying monthly fees for ffxi). Take the time you spend farming, get a second job (probably more fun than farming) and 1/10 of the money from that real job will make up for any gil missed farming and you can use the other 9/10 to support your real life (money you would not have if you were farming in game). Reader's Digest reporteded a while back about how Americans have a record high disposable incomes of over 60%. So spending money on gil isn't likely to conflict with working to support your life.

That this efficiency is brought upon by having somebody else take the time to play your game is just wrong.

If you consider the mind killing boredom of farming 'playing' and 'fun' would you like to farm for me? For most players, farming is pretty low (if not the bottom) of the list of fun activites in ffxi. I don't play to earn gil. I play to chat with friends, do quests, exp jobs (this is fun to me when money isn't a prob), explore, fight HNMs, etc. So buying gil so you can skip straight to the fun part has some truth to it. Just look at WoW. Most of it's appeal is the fact that you don't have to spend months farming to get the best piece of equipment. You don't have to farm to enjoy this game.

While time=money does apply outside jobs, I do liken farming to a job. It is repetitive, dull, and for no other purpose than to earn money.

Time is not money when YOU ARE PLAYING A GAME...Buying gil is like buying rocks...Its right in front of you, and has no real market use in the real world...Sorry but gil wont buy that BMW your wanting, neither will rocks...

Get with the times. Digital items have a value despite the fact that they are not tangible. Your AF armor is not tangible, but I suspect you value it highly and wouldn't toss it aside like a rock. Look at card games such as Pokemon, they have no real market value or use in the real world, but people keep buying them. They buy them to make themselves better (just like people buying gil), yet they have no value and also 'will not you that bmw.' Funny you mention bmw though, because why spend money on that when all you are needing is a car to get you from point A to point B unless the untangible name carries a value to it.

Just look at gil as a third world curreny. You can exchange your money for it, but that country's money isn't as secure (eg: if the country collapses/FFXI stops) and will likely have a high inflation rate. If you are going to spend time in that country you will need some of their currency. We are all spending time Vandeil, so you need the currency. Some people want to exchange some of their money they already have for currency of where they are visiting instead of earning all of in that country. It's an extreme analogy I admit, but it will hopefully get you thinking and comparing. How are they alike and how are they different?

[Yoh2]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

well there are people who buy those stupid rocks at gifts stores and crap lol

[Yashin]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

You just argued for buying gil. :sweat: If you really need all the money you earn to live, then wasting time farming for gil is the last thing you should be doing (as well as paying monthly fees for ffxi). Take the time you spend farming, get a second job (probably more fun than farming) and 1/10 of the money from that real job will make up for any gil missed farming and you can use the other 9/10 to support your real life (money you would not have if you were farming in game). Reader's Digest reporteded a while back about how Americans have a record high disposable incomes of over 60%. So spending money on gil isn't likely to conflict with working to support your life.

If you consider the mind killing boredom of farming 'playing' and 'fun' would you like to farm for me? For most players, farming is pretty low (if not the bottom) of the list of fun activites in ffxi. I don't play to earn gil. I play to chat with friends, do quests, exp jobs (this is fun to me when money isn't a prob), explore, fight HNMs, etc. So buying gil so you can skip straight to the fun part has some truth to it. Just look at WoW. Most of it's appeal is the fact that you don't have to spend months farming to get the best piece of equipment. You don't have to farm to enjoy this game.

While time=money does apply outside jobs, I do liken farming to a job. It is repetitive, dull, and for no other purpose than to earn money.

Get with the times. Digital items have a value despite the fact that they are not tangible. Your AF armor is not tangible, but I suspect you value it highly and wouldn't toss it aside like a rock. Look at card games such as Pokemon, they have no real market value or use in the real world, but people keep buying them. They buy them to make themselves better (just like people buying gil), yet they have no value and also 'will not you that bmw.' Funny you mention bmw though, because why spend money on that when all you are needing is a car to get you from point A to point B unless the untangible name carries a value to it.

Just look at gil as a third world curreny. You can exchange your money for it, but that country's money isn't as secure (eg: if the country collapses/FFXI stops) and will likely have a high inflation rate. If you are going to spend time in that country you will need some of their currency. We are all spending time Vandeil, so you need the currency. Some people want to exchange some of their money they already have for currency of where they are visiting instead of earning all of in that country. It's an extreme analogy I admit, but it will hopefully get you thinking and comparing. How are they alike and how are they different?

Farming is acctually alot more fun then work...work isnt a game, farming is

I find farming fun, do it for you? Sure just ill keep all the money I make...

One peice of my AF has value to me...not so much the value of oh no its usless but its mine! its use is its stats...hell I have only get 3 parts of my AF...2 wich i reall have no idea where they are spending their time right now...and i couldnt careless about them...

Now about the last paragraph...You do that to survive...and that exchange is a real world use...You do this for food. You do this for cloths. You do this for other real world things...You do not do this for a +1 armor...After your 13 bucks amonth, thats all you need to make the money...buying more is buying rocks...useless...I'm really to sorry you are to dense to see the diffrence between a game and the real world...

How they are alike and how are they diffrent? Easy, ones real ones a game...you play a game for fun...not for work...Once you see this farming is not a hassle...Look at it this way, whats the diffrence in farming and EXPing? You kill things over and over, and gain things from both...Why is one unearthly boring that you spend money on it, but the other is cheery and fun? Dont look at it as work...and its not so bad...

[Ghostraven]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

you are forgetting to mention that gilsellers have no respect for the "rules" of the game and will bot camps, killsteal, mpk etc while they farm, Giving "honest" players no chance in hell at getting certain drops legitly.

[DakAttack]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

We're not talking about gil seller tactics, we've already covered that in millions of thread. I still don't understand why people still think it's the sellers that are ruining the economy. If you're on Seraph cross check Boozer and Esoteric Mantle and you've found your problem.

[Selba]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

you are forgetting to mention that gilsellers have no respect for the "rules" of the game and will bot camps, killsteal, mpk etc while they farm, Giving "honest" players no chance in hell at getting certain drops legitly.

This is the exact reason why buying the gil hurts the game. Sure its gil sellers tatics but this is where the gil is coming from so buying gil just supports this. And the more people buying, the more characters they make to repeat these tatics over and over again. Its funny when the gil buyers get to HNMs/Sky and find themselves getting mpked by the ones they get the gil from.

[DakAttack]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

Fight fire with fire.

[lionx]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

Yashin: Simple, you dont have to buy gil. That does not make it value any less to those that find it fine and would. You cant apply that to everyone, no one can.

If you find farming fun go ahead, no one has to share your views on that matter (and i think ALOT of people dont).

[DM337]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

Those arguing that Time =/= Money when playing FFXI clearly have no knowledge of even basic economics. Let me spell it out for you:

*Everything* has a cost. Yes, even free things. It is what economists call the "opportunity cost." Its very simple: the cost of what you do is something else you could've spent that time on. you sleep for 8 hours a night. During that time, you could have worked a second job for minimum wage, and gotten something like $40. thus, the opportunity cost for sleeping at night would be $40. Same thing with playing FFXI. If it takes you three hours to farm up 150k, but three hours of work to get enough cash to buy 1 mil from IGE, who's saying that is inefficient? Despite what you think, you do pay more than the monthly fee to play FFXI. you do essentially pay to farm. You pay to farm to get gil. Gil buyers pay to get gil, they only skip the middle part. Gil buying and selling is wrong, but many players see it as a way to save time, and yes, MONEY. I don't buy gil, I don't have the kind of job or money to buy gil, nor do I ever plan to, but saying that time =/= money for video games and that gil buying is always a total waste of money is just ludicrous.

[Rones]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

you are forgetting to mention that gilsellers have no respect for the "rules" of the game and will bot camps, killsteal, mpk etc while they farm, Giving "honest" players no chance in hell at getting certain drops legitly.

We all agree gil seller tactics are wrong and cheating. However, the point of the discussion is more on the logic of real money trade for game money. This much like what SOE has recently done with Everquest 2. Some fail to see the possible logic in it and respond by calling us dense. :sweat: Read DM337's post for a better explanation of 'time = money' than I can do.

[Hyrist]

Re: So yeh my friend decided to buy gil...

I would like to speak up on gillsellers.

You are wrong to beleive thta all gillsellers MPK steal/camp mining points, etc.

On my server there is one that really dose make an exception of them. Maks.

She levels, she plays the game as well as works on it. She dosent steal mining points, she helps out the locals there. Where as the pair of Galkas there who camp and steal spots, really do play off as the example of bad gilsellers.

Its really up the the indiviual person, just like normal players of the game, to be an ass or a good person. Being a gilseller hasn't much to do with it at all.