Call to Arms! Time to take a stand!

[Xuande]

Re: Call to Arms! Time to take a stand!

"This external activity is going to happen under the table, so it doesn't make any sense to bury your head in the sand and say you forbid it unless you have some effective enforcement tools -- and game publishers haven't found those tools," he says, "The next step is to say, 'Okay, now we have this activity going on, but it's clear that it is noxious and damaging to the product. How do we regulate it? How do we design games to minimize the impact of this external market activity?' Station Exchange is making a step into that more mature policy world, so I think it's a good thing."

You know he's right. Square should probably just full out support RMT.

[Yossar]

Re: Call to Arms! Time to take a stand!

It is a reality of MMORPGs, however, the game company should not be involved with it. They have the ability to create whatever they want. No matter how crooked Gil Sellers are, they still have to earn that money on the server. Creating money out of thin air would decimate the economy even worse than it already is.

[Xuande]

Re: Call to Arms! Time to take a stand!

Creating money out of thin air would decimate the economy even worse than it already is.

Yes, but this is exactly what fish-botting does. Gil gotten from selling fish to NPCs is essentially created out of thin air. It's not gil that was received from another player that already existed, and the fish disappear so it's not benefitting anyone either. What does it matter if Square makes money or some chinese guys in a sweat shop work all day to create the same end result?

[DakAttack]

Re: Call to Arms! Time to take a stand!

Earlier this summer one game, World of Warcraft, signed up 1.5 million players in China in a single month.

Roflroflroflroflrofl

[pearlsea]

Re: Call to Arms! Time to take a stand!

Why do people even bother with internet petitions. I would like to see one example where an online petition actually caused a change.

LIVE 8 actualy made some differance i think.

[lionx]

Re: Call to Arms! Time to take a stand!

Whats so funny about that? Not all Chinese players are selling RMT.

and Fish botting can be anyone, not only RMT, i am pretty sure theres people that fish bot that dont RMT.

That and as the snopes article said, petitions dont mean much in the first place. >_> I am sure that if there was a way to effectively get rid of RMT it would have happened already, but just about every MMORPG has RMT in it.

[DravenDES]

Re: Call to Arms! Time to take a stand!

I'm a gil seller....

So I have been accused of being one for the length of my ffxi career. I hunt in groups, monopolize spawn points, drag trains everywhere I go, I /anon, I don't respond to tells, and most of all I have some dope gear.

If its doable... DO IT. There are no ethics when it comes to business, or gaming. If I can do it and it's not against the eua, then tough. Now selling gil... thats against the rules and I don't do it. But I am accused of selling it because I have habits that look like those who sell it. I once grieved over losing VE and Lizzy to those who looked like 'gil sellers.' Unlike many, I got over it, busted some ass and increased the odds in my favor.

If you ever run into a blm68/thf25 farming elements in Latheine, Buburiu, or Konshtaht...
If you ever see a 60rng/25thf killing every lizzard, ram, damselfly within a mile....
If you ever lose your life in Oztroja and go down to twenty Yags while three of us laugh...

Thats me, and I don't sell gil.

The real trick is to manage an International LS of over 80 lvl75's with members in numerous time zones so that every HNM Spawn can be monitored and camped for more gil than you could even begin to spend. That is in between Dynamis, BCNM's, Garrisons, and mercenary work galore. Not to mention most of us could craft a cool 1M over the course of one session.

[fastcart]

Re: Call to Arms! Time to take a stand!

If its doable... DO IT. There are no ethics when it comes to business, or gaming. If I can do it and it's not against the eua, then tough.

Sorry to pick out one thing you said out of your whole post, but I just highly disagree with this statement. The game (as with life sometimes) is as fair and as ethical as you make it. Example: If you see a line waiting for the NPC BCNM, can you jump ahead to the front? Yes, you can accordinng to how the game was made. Is it fair to the other ppl who have been waiting for hours for you to do so? No, it isn't.

Another example: If you are the leader of an hnm LS (i'm not speaking of any LS or leader in particular), can you horde the gil and good items for yourself? Yes, the game allows you to do so. But, it's not fair to everyone else who helped you get the gil and items.

Just because you see others acting w/o ethics, doesn't make it acceptable to do so yourself. After all, when you are on the receiving end of unethical/unfair treatment, it's pretty darn hard to just deal with it as "tough."

[lionx]

Re: Call to Arms! Time to take a stand!

Well he doesnt HAVE to IMO, no one has to uphold the ethics of a game. It would be certainetly nice to for every single player but no one ever has to and i dont feel it should be enforced unless everyone wants to be under a stricter code for things.

[Yossar]

Re: Call to Arms! Time to take a stand!

Ethics are just that, ethics. If someone wants to be a dick, they can in-game and out of game, but that doesn't change the fact that they are a dick and looked down upon by others.

[DravenDES]

Re: Call to Arms! Time to take a stand!

True. So very True.


Ethics are as relative and insignificant as morality these days. It is out of mode to make statements like "It's not fair" or "You are going to hell you heathen!" I don't do alot of things that are considered unethical. Believe it or not, I draw a line. However, in a Fairness model of business, gaming, or relationships, you will always, ALWAYS, lose.

Fairness = getting and giving what is earned, deserved, or otherwise due. I can guarantee you that you have earned yourself -- A) A swift kick in the balls B) A nod and a stern "Congratulations" or C) Absolutely nothing. This is because you either give nothing and expect something in return (99% of america) or you put in everything and nobody gives you anything in return (99% of america [depending on planetary alignments]). NOTHING IS FAIR, forever.

So. The better model of business, gaming, or relationships is based on the idea that life sucks and you can't expect anything. Once you get over yourself, you'll stop feeling like you were entitled to that HNM, Gil, L00t, etc. Stop thinking about "ME" and you will see negative experiences as growing opportunities and laugh at fairness minded children.

We all get royally screwed from time to time. Don't think your special and say to yourself "That doesn't happen to me!" "Nobody gets away with doing <blank> to me!" If you understand what I am saying you will probably expect getting screwed, overlooked, robbed, <you fill in the blank> 9/10 times. I chose to respond my own way -- this means some would leave me dying at the side of the road before lending me a hand. You can respond to it your own way, though whining about fairness won't get anybody much sympathy.

[Caspian]

Re: Call to Arms! Time to take a stand!

What a disheartening and postmodernistic way to look at things.
Am I special b/c I got screwed over? No.
Does this somehow make it ok to screw ppl over? Not at all.
Think what you want. Ethics and morals are not relative. There is a definite line b/w right and wrong. Whether you personally something is right or wrong doesnt necessarily mean it is. (Our justice system wouldnt be worth a damn if it were..."but officer, I see nothing wrong mith murdering ppl in their sleep").
Being the first to continually claim an hnm doesnt make you a gilseller or a dick, just very good at camping that hnm. MPK'ing to take that mob when claimed by someone else, or cure bombing to take it etc. does in fact make you a dick. I dont know that you do any of these things mind you, just trying to figure out where exactly you draw your line at.
You're correct, its much easier to get ahead in this world by being immoral and screwing others to make yourself look better. I'd rather be a low lvl employee who respects others, than a VP who pissed on all his friends and peers to make 6 figures a year. A venemous claw from a serket you had to mpk for just seems tainted imo.
If you choose to do some of these immoral things, then thats your decision, but dont justify it by saying you dont personally see anything wrong with it.

[pearlsea]

Re: Call to Arms! Time to take a stand!

One of the best aspects of MMORPGs is the ingame economy. The abitily to buy/sell/trade items allows flexibility and gives more depth to the game, removing it would annoy alot of pepole, there is a reason there is an economy there, cause it adds to the game. What you propose would ruin it and make pepole angry.

"only the creation of a single server" Do you have any idea how much it would cost to buy a new server and all the maintenance and upkeep fees included with it? way more to make it worthwile as far as i know.

But what SE has to do is take steps to identify the gil sellers, ban there accounts and IP's, and eventualy they will get PO enough to stop selling it cause its not worth the effort/having to start over everytime they get caught.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Call to Arms! Time to take a stand!

True. So very True.


Ethics are as relative and insignificant as morality these days. It is out of mode to make statements like "It's not fair" or "You are going to hell you heathen!" I don't do alot of things that are considered unethical. Believe it or not, I draw a line. However, in a Fairness model of business, gaming, or relationships, you will always, ALWAYS, lose.

Fairness = getting and giving what is earned, deserved, or otherwise due. I can guarantee you that you have earned yourself -- A) A swift kick in the balls B) A nod and a stern "Congratulations" or C) Absolutely nothing. This is because you either give nothing and expect something in return (99% of america) or you put in everything and nobody gives you anything in return (99% of america [depending on planetary alignments]). NOTHING IS FAIR, forever.

So. The better model of business, gaming, or relationships is based on the idea that life sucks and you can't expect anything. Once you get over yourself, you'll stop feeling like you were entitled to that HNM, Gil, L00t, etc. Stop thinking about "ME" and you will see negative experiences as growing opportunities and laugh at fairness minded children.

We all get royally screwed from time to time. Don't think your special and say to yourself "That doesn't happen to me!" "Nobody gets away with doing <blank> to me!" If you understand what I am saying you will probably expect getting screwed, overlooked, robbed, <you fill in the blank> 9/10 times. I chose to respond my own way -- this means some would leave me dying at the side of the road before lending me a hand. You can respond to it your own way, though whining about fairness won't get anybody much sympathy.

I pity you.

You're correct, its much easier to get ahead in this world by being immoral and screwing others to make yourself look better. I'd rather be a low lvl employee who respects others, than a VP who pissed on all his friends and peers to make 6 figures a year. A venemous claw from a serket you had to mpk for just seems tainted imo.
If you choose to do some of these immoral things, then thats your decision, but dont justify it by saying you dont personally see anything wrong with it.

Thank you for renewing some of my faith in the younger generation!

[Xyphere]

Re: Call to Arms! Time to take a stand!

Just send Emails'; assloads. SE will have to do something if enough people whine (but make good arguments in their emails, like 'I pay to play this game, my experience shouldn't have to be ruined by players to do not abide to the rules' or something like that )