Ever Wonder About IGE and SE?

[Savanna]

Okay, I'm really mad right now.

I'm on Midgard server, and we all know the economy is beyond screwed up because of the gil sellers. Everyone knows it, almost everyone gripes about it, and the GMs do absolutely frigging nothing about it.

We all had theories on why that is, basically because IGE pays SE off. Okay, nobody could prove it but then why wouldn't they ban the gil sellers for killing players and camping sites 24/7 without end?

Well here's another little fucking gem for you all: http://www.ffxi.com

Where does it lead? To IGE, of course.

Now, I may be blonde, but I know the law, and I know internet law. Correct me if I'm wrong here but isn't that a trademarked name? Doesn't SE own that name?

Maybe I'm wrong, but if I ran a BUSINESS selling ANYTHING on a site named FF7.com relating in ANY way to Final Fantasy, does ANYONE here think that my ass wouldn't be slammed in jail and my site suspended so fast by a corporate lawyer and a really hard ass judge? No excuses about IGE being Chinese, btw - the site is registered in CALIFORNIA.

I don't know about you, but I know of dozens of cases where corporations got their name back from trademarked products which other people were using to sell stuff - let alone stuff online which breaks their trademark rule and is against the company itself.

Has ANYONE here heard of a case brought by SE against IGE for copyright infringement of that name? Anyone?

No, didn't fucking think so.

What the fuck? Is this not the final insult? When are they just going to own up and admit they are part of it? This isn't some grand conspiracy theory either. Is there a single corporation out there that doesn't jealously guard their name? Is there a single corp out there which won't sue over somebody using their name for illicit business practices?

What the fuck? Hey, [GM]ImLyingToYourFuckingFace - how the FUCK are you going to answer that one? Have you guys sent a team of lawyers over to IGE's office in California yet? Show me the fucking papers.

[lionx]

Re: Ever Wonder About IGE and SE?

Berry is that you...? @_@

Well before we start hating on gilsellers, i am just wondering...has any MMORPG in the past(or even present excluding SE) ever done any legal action against virtual money being traded? To my knowledge there isnt...(however if there is one please let me know ^^). So assuming that no one else has filed anything against them, are all of them also into joint selling pieces of data? I wouldnt think all of them would if at all...otherwise people that really wanted to look into this would know and everyone would probably know that the game company is doing that, and its a big blow to them and its not worth the risk....that and how much money do they have to negoiate with the seller company?

The problem with banning gilsellers is that, unlike the real world, they can just keep creating characters over and over...thats only if they have 100% proof that they do sell gil. If they say banned you because they suspected you selling gil, then there can be so much MORE bullcrap going on than there is now...at least thats how i look at it. If it is a simple answer to this stuff, i like to hear it, but things are rarely simple..otherwise there wont be this problem at all...and also look at EQ. They sell game money(as in Sony) to counter 3rd party sellers, however i dont know if that actually works and if indeed they did have a joint contract with their own RMT, then why would they open one of their own?

Whitehouse.gov leads to the official white house website, now if you put a .com to it, its a freaking porn website that my school had to put out a newsletter warning people about it. The internet i think currently has little to now laws(however i hope it stays that way). As long as someone purchases a domain, they can use it. Otherwise those ffxionline or ffxi-mysitehere are illegal? Not sure, but if it is indeed that way, it makes no sense. FFXI uses the playonline site anyway, their url is completely different. That i think its redirected, they arent selling anything on ffxi.com, its just a redirect.

Anyway i am in no way trying to defend IGE as they are in a way violating the ToS(they can say they arent because they are actually just getting paid for delivering items..thats why i said "in a way"). However to JUST say that IGE and SE(and not other gilselling sites out there) are in it together with no real proof or anything of the sort and state it as fact, is just unjustified and quite unbelievable to be put forth with such confidence. Certainetly its not impossible, but at the same light what you said has the same credibility as saying purple elephants made the world, without any proof =/

[grunion]

Re: Ever Wonder About IGE and SE?

there's no clear black and white ruling on trademark relating to domain ownership. there have been some verdicts going either way, depending on the specifics of each case. i would think that S-E would in in court on this though. maybe they haven't sent the cease-and-desist yet.

Ogaming is a portal site that looks pretty dead http://ffxi.ogaming.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6423 only a dozen forum posts in the past 2 weeks. my guess is someone at that company saw they had a dead URL and decided to make a little money on it by forwarding to IGE

i looked in web.archive.org and it's had a varied history:
Feb 02, 2001: "The domain name www.ffxi.com is for sale" (looks like they grabbed EVERY 4 letter domain though, not related to FFXI specifically)
Nov 28, 2001 forwards to "drunkgamers.com"
Mar 25, 2003 forwards to "killpoetry.org"
Feb 25, 2004 forwards to IGE.com

i assume S-E just never cared

here's who owns the domain now:
Registrant:
THE OGAMING NETWORK

Suite 239
1223 Wilshire Blvd.
Santa Monica, California 90403-5400
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: FFXI.COM
Created on: 19-Nov-01
Expires on: 25-Mar-08
Last Updated on: 19-Jan-05

Administrative Contact:
BROYER, JM dns@ogaming.com
THE OGAMING NETWORK
Suite 239
1223 Wilshire Blvd.
Santa Monica, California 90403-5400
United States
3109140191 Fax -- 3109140189
Technical Contact:
BROYER, JM dns@ogaming.com
THE OGAMING NETWORK
Suite 239
1223 Wilshire Blvd.
Santa Monica, California 90403-5400
United States
3109140191 Fax -- 3109140189

Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.CHANGEIP.COM
NS2.CHANGEIP.COM

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Ever Wonder About IGE and SE?

LOL Sorry but this made me laugh. Just because a site called ffxi.com forwards you to IGE then SE and IGE are in bed with one another? That is the weakest link.

Now could they be in bed with one another? Totally possible. The way things are going on Midgard it certainly leads you to believe it at times.

Edit: Aw Grunion you beat me to it. I was just going to look that up. ^^ And as for the site name, people register sites with names linked to something famous all the time. They even auction the urls on Ebay. They do it in hopes that the company/person will contact them and offer them a good price for it. Here's a dreamer:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...gory=3767&rd=1

[Siber]

Re: Ever Wonder About IGE and SE?

Is it possible that SE only grabbed the Final Fantasy names as their own, but they didn't think to also attempt to own the acronyms that we, the gamers, created to shorten the game names? I know nothing of the law in how that would work, but it's an idea.

[Sakurachan]

Re: Ever Wonder About IGE and SE?

SquareEnix is getting paid by IGE.

[Lacilie]

Re: Ever Wonder About IGE and SE?

You are totally right, we are all staged!

OK, I will be the leader, let's begin a revolution, bring you guns and bombs and let's show those SE bastards.

Seriously, this post has as much INT as an Elvaan war with -int gears.

Why don't they ban gilfarmers? Because they can't, there is no transaction done in game, player and player can send each other money; don't tell me you never sent your mules money... Yes, SE know about the transaction in real life, but they are so seperated, plus, real life law isn't as easy as you little 4 years old crying to mommy is. Oh, US law doesn't work on HK either, which is why criminals escape aboard, this isn't a crime worth FBI or some ICPO to get involved with, which is why, SE, working on US, JP or EU law can't sue them even if they want to.

I can easily buy a domain named www.se.com, now am I working for SE too? Don't check the link either, it was an example, the url is probably taken.

[Kafeen]

Re: Ever Wonder About IGE and SE?

Well here's another little fucking gem for you all: http://www.ffxi.com

Where does it lead? To IGE, of course.

Now, I may be blonde, but I know the law, and I know internet law. Correct me if I'm

There are other sites that use FFXI in their name aswell. What about http://www.ffxionline.com ?


They can't actually take any legal action against IGE because there's currently no laws that govern it. There was a case a few years ago where the name www.mattel.com was originally bought by Rotten.com.

Mattel agreed not to sue us if we handed the domain name to them. We should mention that such a suit would be without merit. From a legal standpoint, there is no overlap between what rotten.com does and Mattel, and thus no trademark issue

Its also not illegal to sell ingame items or money, it is against the terms and conditions of the EULA and your accound can be banned but with IGE making $100+ per transaction even if they are banned they can just buy new accounts anyway.

Here's a dreamer:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...gory=3767&rd=1

[CODE]
Shipping Cost Services Available Available to
GBP 10.00 Royal Mail Special Delivery United Kingdom Only
GBP 15.00 Royal Mail International Signed-for Worldwide
[/CODE]
As if the £8,000 for the address wasn't bad enough, how much can it cost to ship a web address?

[grunion]

Re: Ever Wonder About IGE and SE?

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,68150,00.html

go register something closeto mcdonalds.com and see how long that lasts

S-E could certainly take legal action here.

and anyone that says "s-e can't ban gil sellers" is living in some kind of alternate reality. they have the technical means, they have the legal right, they have the necessary info. they could do it any time they want.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Ever Wonder About IGE and SE?

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,68150,00.html

go register something closeto mcdonalds.com and see how long that lasts

S-E could certainly take legal action here.

An internet arbitrator has awarded Google the rights to several website addresses that relied on typographical errors to exploit the online search engine's popularity so computer viruses and other malicious software could be unleashed on unsuspecting visitors.

The url in question in this thread doesn't post a threat to anyone. SE would be hard pressed to make a case against the owner of that url and probably knows that. It would be a waste of money to try and take legal action. Their best bet would be to approach him and negotiate to buy the url.

Check out kfc.com. Now go to various other sites kfc.net, kfc.us, kfc.org, and even kfc.museum.

[kuu]

Re: Ever Wonder About IGE and SE?

Now where is that link to the arcticle on professional gilfarmers, that sepecifically state, that IGE is a middle man nothing more nother less... They buy from gil farmers and sell to players.

And last we know IGE has their hands in all major mmorpgs.

[little ninja]

Re: Ever Wonder About IGE and SE?

how do i know S.E an IGE are in bed playing back door raiders??? its very simple being how i was banned for a couple of days. the known mpkers, an amemet monopalizers ( both not alloud by S.E) sent a few lizards an crabs towards a group of noobs lvling on lizards an crabs.

after the rdm who tried hard to sleep the mobs was easily taken out. a bst buddy an i ran in to stop it.we managed to take the links, an bring them back towards the gil sellers who claimed amemet. they all died. sortly after that my buddy an i were arrested an charged with mpking a group. even though the party called a GM long before the 5 people we killed did.

there is proof floating around the web of things they actually try to do. so its not like we have no evidence. 75 lvls not counting other jobs without a GM confrontation. an for this we see 2 days in jail. compared to how many calls those players have on them. hell they had 6 from the pt alone. not including those who were in the tunnels when it happened.

im in jail an they are not. if the idea of S.E an IGE being bed buddies is a joke. hwo do you explain it? HOW ?

[Pounce]

Re: Ever Wonder About IGE and SE?

I don't think there is a conspiracy.

However, I think it's very possible that S-E is "tolerating" the presence of gilsellers, since the "service" gilsellers and brokers like IGE provide really does make the game accessible to more people - especially with the current rock bottom gil prices.

Every now and then they do some token bannings to put up a facade that they care, but so far S-E hasn't really done anything substantial to deal with the problem - and it's been more than a year since it became severe.

[Savanna]

Re: Ever Wonder About IGE and SE?

Alright, way too many for me to reply to individually, but you're wrong if you think ffxi.com is legal.

Let me explain:

1) Whitehouse.gov and Whitehouse.com: White House is *NOT* a trademarked name. The government can't sue over names like Congress, Pentagon, etc.... because it isn't a corporation or a company. In effect, it's a public resource and not there for a profit. You could name your company FCC and nobody could do anything about it.

2) The laws governing the internet domain names are becoming more and more strict. Google just won a *huge* battle against people who squat *typos* to redirect people with known trademarked names. That means if you even have a typo trademarked name, one that comes really close to something that is well known, you are liable if they can prove that you are using the name of something else to make a profit for your own sake.

3) There are hundreds of examples of companies shutting down sites with names by placing a hold on the DNS. Some of them take years, but a lot don't.

4) FFXI is a recognizable trademark. Even if the full version is Final Fantasy XI, anyone can easily prove that FFXI means the same thing - *especially* if the defendant is using that acronym in conjunction with your *product* to make money from it. It has nothing to do with gil selling, but open permission to use a trademark name for any business purpose whatsoever. It would be impossible for IGE to claim that they are not misusing the name FFXI or are not related in any way to the brand logo of FFXI since they have FFXI graphics all over their site and their entire business is based right off of the business entailed by the FFXI game. Like I couldn't, for example, create a site named Microsoft.org with the Microsoft logo all over it and sell hacks (not even illegal ones) to Microsoft software without Microsoft instantly shutting me down for illegal use of their logo because my entire business depends on theirs without their permission and people might think that I am a Microsoft representative (misrepresentation is a huge, huge, deal in these cases).

If SE really gave a crap about IGE, they could easily - *easily* - serve a Cease and Desist order to ogaming.com for the misrepresentation of their logo and business and that server would be placed on hold pretty much immediately until the legal action was resolved.

Now, if you start a site like ffxionline.com (which may or may not have permission from SE, but I believe it might have it) you can easily show that this isn't a money making business and you are not misguiding people into buying certain things under the belief that it is acceptable to the company policy (nothing to do with the actual legality of a product). Even then, if SE wanted to pull the name FFXIonline.com, they would have every right and every means to do so under the law. They don't, because they happen to give it their blessing, but that's exactly my point: they don't CARE that IGE owns FFXI.com and redirects it to a gil selling site. They don't care, and there is only one reason that they don't care, and it doesn't have *anything* to do with their capabilities of putting a stop to it.

Considering the company is registered in California, it falls under US law, which means that these options are far easier to pursue than, say, China.

As a final note, I dare *anyone* to start a site called FFXIGil.com, registered in the U.S., with FFXI logos on it, and start selling gil on it without ever talking to SE.

See how long your theories would last before you'd get a Cease and Desist order slammed up on your desk by a team of corporate lawyers telling you that you are illegally using their copyrights and misdirecting people for the purpose of your business.

[Jei]

Re: Ever Wonder About IGE and SE?

The developer team of Vanguard (Sigil?) said in one of their interview that they had been contacted from IGE offering them shares of sold gils. They, the Sigil, were the first that ever let that information out The devs specificly said they refuse to cooperate. Vanguard is still 2 years from complete.

I'm pretty sure IGE went around contacting other companies too, but no one will ever talked about it.