is using the windower cheating?

[little ninja]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

THEGRANDMOM. if you know its cheating. an feel guilty for using it. then honestly why do you use it. do i think its against the ToS rules. yes i do. do i feel like im cheating others out of their gaming experience NO. in no way am i using the windower for further gains. im not using it to claim a mob, 7days a week. to bot the a.h, an guilds.

we talk about ToS like its some kind of bible. but actually ToS is nothing more then the T.P i wipe my ass with. gil sellers/buyers still exsist. mpkers/ monopalizers still exist. hell spammers still exisit. yet these are all NONO's of the ToS.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

So by changing your defintion after I invalidate your old one, you've answered the question? I'm sorry, but that's not going to fly. With your new definition, how is Windower "dishonest" in how it breaks the rules? Otherwise, my same statement still holds true.

No shit Sherlock; as I have said before, no one disagrees that we're breaking rules. Everyone understands that using windower is breaking a rule. The quote you used once again applies to your initial definition. the ToS agreement is -not- the game rules; they are terms that you agree to inorder to play the game. There's a difference.

And the other programs I speak of, FRAPs and Clipper, are third party programs. So by your definition, they're cheats. But try to guess what they do, just guess. Here, I'll tell you. They take... pictures! So obviously that's cheating because it breaks the ToS agreement.

LOL How did you invalidate my old one? I just used the MW definition since thats the one you seem to prefer. The Dictionary.com one is basically saying the same thing. The point that it only applies to card games is asinine. That is an example to get their point across.

Dishonest: characterized by lack of truth, honesty, or trustworthiness : UNFAIR, DECEPTIVE

So basically, you lie when you agree to now use 3rd party programs when playing FFXI, therefore you are being dishonest or deceptive.

Then if no one disagrees that we are breaking the rules, then what is the issue? Because the word cheating is involved? They go hand in hand. So you say that "they are terms that you agree to inorder to play the game.". Well then if you agree to them you are being dishonest or deceptive by violating them. So therefore you are cheating. No difference Sherlock. LOL

THEGRANDMOM. if you know its cheating. an feel guilty for using it. then honestly why do you use it.

Why do I use it? For the same reason everyone else does. I alt tab to find FFXI info (usually when I'm soloing) or to watch a video while I seek.

Your definition is that windower. Windower does not mean windower written by arch... whatever his name is. It just means running an application which was not programed to run in a window.......... in a window using a 3rd party application... the windower. Yes, we have an advantage with THAT windower. NO, we did not have an advantage with the previous versions of the windower.

Isn't that what all the hub bub is about on the forums right now? THAT windower? I believe it started with the banning of people reported for using that particular version. So that is what I'm addressing.

[Macht]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

THEGRANDMOM. if you know its cheating. an feel guilty for using it. then honestly why do you use it. do i think its against the ToS rules. yes i do. do i feel like im cheating others out of their gaming experience NO. in no way am i using the windower for further gains. im not using it to claim a mob, 7days a week. to bot the a.h, an guilds.

we talk about ToS like its some kind of bible. but actually ToS is nothing more then the T.P i wipe my ass with. gil sellers/buyers still exsist. mpkers/ monopalizers still exist. hell spammers still exisit. yet these are all NONO's of the ToS.

Bank robbery, hit and runs, murder, rape, etc.. are NONO's of the Legal system and yet they still exist. You'r point is?

[kuu]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

There will always be people that try to push their ideas onto others through age old catchphrases.

[little ninja]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

Bank robbery, hit and runs, murder, rape, etc.. are NONO's of the Legal system and yet they still exist. You'r point is?

yeah but we arent throwing people in jail for 5 years because they rolled thru a stop sign at 3 am.

an we dont have the law enforcements spending all their man hours on someone who's dog pooped in the park..

point is there is alot worse things goin on in FFXi. then wether i use a windower or not..

[DakAttack]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

I use the windower now, it's helpful. I don't feel guilty, why should I? Who's gonna make me? Not you, that's for sure. It can do other helpful things too, why shouldn't it? Stop talking! Leave me alone!

[Tokitoki]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

The guy got banned for 4 days. If they thought it was something more serious, they owuldnt even question banning them permanently. Though I do remember when the GM banned the gil sellers for 4 days cause me and 5 of my friends reported them for speed hacking.

[Macht]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

yeah but we arent throwing people in jail for 5 years because they rolled thru a stop sign at 3 am.

an we dont have the law enforcements spending all their man hours on someone who's dog pooped in the park..

point is there is alot worse things goin on in FFXi. then wether i use a windower or not..

Uhh, actually some people are. I know my sister nearly got in trouble for not cleaning it up, I thought it was insaine the officer was going to fine her a $500 for it >.>

That's one hell of an expensive piece of dog poo.


Don't know about the laws in other places but in Arizona if you rolled thru a stop sign at 3 am.
/me raises his hand.
Then you end up with either having to go to defensive driving class to keep your record clean (As long as you haven't previously or 2 years passed since then), or pay some $750 (I think it was, I forgot).

Still don't see your point.

EDIT:

Oh and don't think it was mentioned, but all the polls that were done before yesterday were purged. There was an error that was occuring with them, I think it's fixed now I forget have to go look again.

Oh, and speaking of defensive driving. Man you should of seen the photo the guy next to me had (He was caught on photo radar). He flew through the red light mooning the camera o.O

[csBahamut]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

Mach and TheGrandMom, I tried to present all the same arguements back when the Windower first came out, but people did not listen then, nor will they listen now. People do what they want, especially when their chances of getting caught are so low, and the punishment not even really a punishment for these people.

People speed, go through red lights, download music and movies illegally all because of their greed/selfishness and ability to easily get away with it.

As for those that want to get into the ethics of cheating...what's moral and imoral varries from culture to culture, and person to person. No one will ever see completely eye to eye on every issue. It's just human nature. The cheaters will say that you can't force your ideals on others because it's wrong, yet they can force others to accept theirs (by saying that you can't force your opinion on them). It's a double edged sword, and a logical fallacy of hipocrisy.

So in conclusion, people should stop using third party programs with FFXI. If you want people to treat you fairly, then you need to do the same. Remember, what ever you do now out of selfishness, you will pay for later(and I'm not speaking religiously, or in a religious context. It's just the way the universe works. Nothing comes without a price. For ever action, there is a reaction.).

[lilguy]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

i would use it only if its safe and only if its safe i have had so many probs in the past T.T

[Tokitoki]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

depends on what you think safe is... If you download it from the main site you wont get trojans and everything that you may get outside it, but if you are talking about being banned, that might happen.

[Macht]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

csBahamut, I'm aware of that....In fact I think I was posting along with you during that time also. Unfortunatly even if there are so many that won't listen you still have to defend against it to help as extra perssuasion to those who are considering to hopefuly reduce the amount that do.

The more posts there are for illegal programs the more the mentality of "Well everyone else is doing it" starts to appear true. If there are people opposed to it then it at least still help to slow the bleeding. On top that SE seems to have implimented methods to identify people using hacks of a certain level of development.

As long as the hack is under that level they may not catch it, but once it crosses a certain point its noticable enough for SE to identify it.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

Well I'm not saying that anyone is "bad" for using a windower. My point was to address the topic "is using the windower cheating?". Thats all. It's fairly cut and dry but people start to get defensive like you beat up their kitten. I even pointed out that I use one also. I don't want them to be disabled and I certainly do not want to be banned. But if I do happen to be banned, I have no one but myself to blame. I knew what I was doing when I d/l'd, installed, and used the windower. I know full well its agains the rules and I'm willing to take any punishment I may get. And if I hate SE for doing what they are doing, then I'll find somewhere else to spend my time.

[Macht]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

And if I hate SE for doing what they are doing, then I'll find somewhere else to spend my time.

I have no clue why but that last comment just gets me riled up. It is the truth though of what happens when people decide to take responsibility for their actions. To bad most of the time they have to express their hate for SE or the GMs doing their jobs which part of it is keeping the gameplay in line with the TOS.

If they wouldn't express their hate for a place doing their job and discouraging others from playing then I could see them actually taking responsibility.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

The comment was basically saying that if I end up hating SE because they won't let me have a windower, then I'll quit and do something else. But since I don't depend on a windower heavily, this would probably never happen. I played the game before without a windower and was just as addicted! LOL