is using the windower cheating?

[Tokitoki]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

i said the same thing. As I said in my first post, its very annoying asking alliance's MP every min and if everyone gets the windower you can just use the skillchain and not have to create a light spam with your tp macros.

[Macht]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

The windower itself I don't see as big an issue. A PS2 or even when Xbox 360 comes out if they want to look something up they can always have a computer or laptop right next to them and look. So the windower gives that equal freedom to a PC user.

The plug-ins giving the PC an advantage with all those monitoring abilities though I can see spawning immoral actions though. Players aware of this may start to segregate players from PC user and others. It isn't strange for people at time to even demand players to be of certain requirements, so even those that are PC users maybe looked at as oddities because they don't have a windower and don't have the features to monitor such things that the plug-in gives.

As long as it remains a simple windower nothing else no scripting no types of plug-ins and I can see it being fair. Once it crosses that line no way.

EDIT:

The idea of creating these monitors for viewing TP and such is a good idea. I would suggest sending it to SE in the "Comments and Suggestions" area so they can take care of it and maintain a balance playground for all players regardless of media they use.

[Shiro_Hayate]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

I'm thinking S-E didn't allow UI customization because the game is a port from PS2. Plus, customizing UIs allow room for..well..hacks. But then, people find out ways to hack eventually and the only one who can stop hackers are GMs/SE themselves. I believe they should allow a more customizable UI. I don't understand why they didn't think of displaying party members TP (sick of spamming #2 Sickle Moon <tp> or something of the sort).

As for the windower being used as a cheat, I don't think so. SE made this game dependant on coop play. They're damn aware of the fact that some people spend hours without a party, so what the hell do they want us to do during those hours? Plus, I like chatting on MSN, ICQ, AOL, whatever and SE should allow us to interact with our friends while playing the game without having to purchase other computers.

[DakAttack]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

I never need to ask anybody for their TP. We usually get into a set routine, which monster we do it on, when, and we do it. If I'm not sure about something I'll post my TP, and the other person will post theirs, and we do it if the time is right. It really doesn't take much coordination.

Alliance MP I see could be useful, but it's still not how the game was meant to be played. I know it's registers in the mind better when we see the value under the name, rather than in the chat log. The chat log may not always represent the most up to date information, and by refrencing the HP/MP table we can get the info as we need it.

[Siber]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

I said the ability to be windowed, timers, and a map are okay. I think all of them should have been in the game in the first place, but obviously they are not. The only thing I have against the map is if it would get rid of the need for widescan for all jobs. If the map did like Widescan for RNG and BST appropriately, that's fine, but if it gave widescan to all jobs then I can see that being a problem.

The idea of creating these monitors for viewing TP and such is a good idea. I would suggest sending it to SE in the "Comments and Suggestions" area so they can take care of it and maintain a balance playground for all players regardless of media they use.

The thing is though, if SE never already considered that, why would the information be stored on the client side memory? I think SE probably thought that over and for some reason decided later to not included it, but they left the information in memory for some reason.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

For me its quite simple. We piss and moan about people buying gil or selling it. It breaks the TOS we cry and they do nothing abou it! Yet when it comes to US doing something that breaks the TOS, suddenly we can bend the rules a bit. Gil selling and buying is against the TOS as are 3rd pt programs. A windower is a 3rd pt program and violates the TOS, so its wrong. Whether it makes our gaming situation more tolerable or not is not the issue.

Cheating: To violate rules deliberately, as in a game

Windowers violate the rules and you are doing it deliberately, therefore it is a cheat.

[Skygto]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

Yes it's cheating, yes it's against the rules, yes it's wrong. But do I feel bad using it? Hell no. It doesn't harm anyone else, maybe when SE gets pissed and starts handing out emergency server updates. It's for pure convenience.

[Reisuki]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

Acctually; A law student looked at the member agreements and sudsequent documents and saw no contractual basis that 3rd PT programs could be considered in breach of anything we agreed to. He also said that because parts of the ToS, namely the Cheat programs part, is worded to vaugely to hold up in a court.

I'll try and find what he said in full.

[711rocks]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

Programs like windowers and fraps aren't a big deal, but things such as speed hacks and bots are. Gil selling is a whole different ballgame.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

Programs like windowers and fraps aren't a big deal, but things such as speed hacks and bots are. Gil selling is a whole different ballgame.

Speed hacks, bots, gil selling and windowers all fall into the same catagory, they break the TOS. Period. You can try to justify the difference by saying one isn't as bad as the other to make yourself feel better but they are all the same.

Also I never said a word about whether you should feel bad for using it. That is entirely up to the individual.

[Kailea]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

Speed hacks, bots, gil selling and windowers all fall into the same catagory, they break the TOS. Period. You can try to justify the difference by saying one isn't as bad as the other to make yourself feel better but they are all the same.

Also I never said a word about whether you should feel bad for using it. That is entirely up to the individual.

lol you are funny.....yeah....btw the TOS can kiss my tail........

Fraps and Windower are very diffrent from bots and speed hacks and the like, they are not the same at all, you must also think dogs and cats are the same as well with that mind set.....

[TheGrandMom]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

lol you are funny.....yeah....btw the TOS can kiss my tail........

Fraps and Windower are very diffrent from bots and speed hacks and the like, they are not the same at all, you must also think dogs and cats are the same as well with that mind set.....

No its simple pure logic. I'm sorry if your not logical about the situation but I am. You can justify the use of it all you like but it still violates the TOS. Since they all do there is no difference. They are all cheats. That is what this thread is about "Is using the windower cheating?".

[Vinen]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

For me its quite simple. We piss and moan about people buying gil or selling it. It breaks the TOS we cry and they do nothing abou it! Yet when it comes to US doing something that breaks the TOS, suddenly we can bend the rules a bit. Gil selling and buying is against the TOS as are 3rd pt programs. A windower is a 3rd pt program and violates the TOS, so its wrong. Whether it makes our gaming situation more tolerable or not is not the issue.

Cheating: To violate rules deliberately, as in a game

Windowers violate the rules and you are doing it deliberately, therefore it is a cheat.

If using a windower is cheating then having a second computer on the internet next to you at the same time while playing FFXI is cheating.

Your Logic is warped

Breaking the ToS != Cheating. Cheating harms the game for other people. Use of a Windower in no way harms other players.

[711rocks]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

Speed hacks, bots, gil selling and windowers all fall into the same catagory, they break the TOS. Period. You can try to justify the difference by saying one isn't as bad as the other to make yourself feel better but they are all the same.

Also I never said a word about whether you should feel bad for using it. That is entirely up to the individual.

Im not trying to make myself feel better about anything, I play on ps2 and can't use any of those programs anyway.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: is using the windower cheating?

If using a windower is cheating then having a second computer on the internet next to you at the same time while playing FFXI is cheating.

Your Logic is warped

Breaking the ToS != Cheating. Cheating harms the game for other people. Use of a Windower in no way harms other players.

And how would having a 2nd account and playing it at the same time be cheating? That makes absolutlely no sense. As long as your not using any of the mentioned cheats, then your not cheating. In case you missed this:

Cheating: To violate rules deliberately, as in a game

Since playing 2 characters side by side does not violate the rules, in fact SE probably loves the idea, it is therefore not cheating.

My logic is perfectly fine. It's just that people don't like to look in the mirror and face the truth. If you use a windower, according to SE's TOS, your cheating. It's simple. How you feel about it is another thing. Logic doesn't lie, people do.

FYI, I use one and I know I'm cheating. Doesn't bother me because I know I'm not using it in a malicious way. What does bother me is that the PS2'ers don't have this advantage.