OMFG! SE is nerfing NIN and RNG!!!

[Rodin]

Originally posted by ZQM
I doubt this will hurt NIN much at all, NIN has a ton of hate tools too choose from. I also doubt this will make a difference in exp, considering fights are so short.

Lol, sadly, even at 65, I know a lot of NINs that use Utsusemi only. They don't use any other tools or NIN spells. And sadly, I get blamed when the BLM gets one shotted because the NIN couldn't keep hate.

On the other hand, I know a handful of NINs that actually can keep hate throught the whole RNG RNG RNG WHM BRD NIN type party.

A word to future NINs: In order to do your job right, you should use EVERY spell you can to keep hate.

[Abriael]

It will depend on what is the actual weight of the change, basically on how much hate a ninja will loose while blink tanking.
In any case a review on utsusemi was long overdue, it would be kinda silly to feign surprise about it.
Moreover we still don't know ALL the changes there will be in the next update. In my opinion the exploit of utsusemi is the element that prevented ninjas to be given the San line of Ninjutsu, so if the utsusemi changes are enough to stop that exploit, who knows what the future holds?

[Cbot]

I'm really happy with the update.I hope that ninja will be more of a DD than a tank.

[Russta]

I'm really not worried about this "Ninja nerf" because I have enough faith in my abilities to know it will make no difference to how well I keep hate in normal situations. Ninja is rediculously overpowered and it was only a matter of time before they started chipping away at them. As was said by Nimla, it's impossible to predict the impact this will have on Ninja as a tank until we see it first hand. Bear in mind that Square's last attempt at nerfing Ninja, where AoE's removed all shadows, is all but forgotten now as good players quickly adapted to it and coped. The only thing that worries me is how this is going to affect tanking the big guns where our only means of keeping hate is Provoke, Ninjutsu and an Earth Staff for zero damage. I don't wanna return to the stoneage of Paladins.

[little ninja]

honestly i think it was great for the FFXI community to have the ninjas step up to the plate, an fill in the role of tank. im sorry ZQM but you are the only war i have ever heard who refers to his class as a tanking class. i have taken war, an drk to 60, with nin to 74, an i have not once heard a war want to be a tank, they always express "im more a DD".

lets imagine this game without the ninja tank, honestly most warriors would never want to be a pure tank. so now everyone in the game is waiting on "1" job class to tank. so how many of you DD would actually be 75, or closing in on it? 4 pld on my server at this time, an 100+ DD. wether your PRO ninja or your not. having a ninja tank is a good thing.

NERF? i think not, all S.E is doing is making the ninja community even stronger better class. all rememver the utes nerf. the one where AOE would go thru shadows or strip them. this did nothing but make us trully masters of the blink.

[BENWALLACE]

I think most people who respond to this nerf are those who are still leveling their nins, and I very much think that the bigger implication isn't that of a standard exp pt, but the super tough HNM's. As you said, Russta, I'm not really worried about everyday situations either, but for the big HNM's, any reduction in hate accumulation does make me pretty nervous.

Worst case scenario:

1 of BENWALLACE's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
Tiamat readies Spike Flail.

I don't think it'll be that bad, obviously just a greater fear in my book, but I'm not really sure how I can counter a hate reduction, when I already do most everything I can in those types of fights. The change, unless it's very miniscule (and I doubt that they'd make any kind of change unless it was fairly significant) will have an impact on big HNM tanking, regardless of how good a NIN tank anyone is. How big of an impact remains to be seen but, it's not something I'm very agreeable with, or looking forward to.

If anything though, the last thing I'm worried about is the people who are still exping. They should be impacted the least, assuming they know how to equip properly.

[ZQM]

I just pray the hate loss doesn't equal to how hard you get hit. Tiamat crits me for 800-900 damage (Considering he's basically 24/7 Mighty Strikes), and each time I get hit I lose a huge chunk of hate. If it's like that for everytime I dodge a hit with Utsusemi, it's just not possible to hold hate.

I also don't understand why they would just nerf Utsusemi. PLDs still have AA Rot. Maybe things will change to the point of NINs getting AA rot and only using Utsusemi as an emergency. At that point, you're looking at the "ultimate" blink tank (Since so many blink options) who would still spend most of the time not losing hate. However, great thing about blink tanks before was not needing support. Slap a WHM and a BRD in the tank party and that's all I need (Though SMN and RDM help a ton aswell ).

im sorry ZQM but you are the only war i have ever heard who refers to his class as a tanking class. i have taken war, an drk to 60, with nin to 74, an i have not once heard a war want to be a tank, they always express "im more a DD".

There's others. WARs a versatile class, it all depends on what you want to do with it. I like doing the unexpected.

[Macht]

Tell me this how well can a NIN hold hate when they don't have Utsusemi on? That is practically the logic, if you loose hate per hit given to a shadow then holding hate program wise will be very similar to that from how it sounds.

Right now NIN can hold hate very well simply because the shadows are not reducing the hate gained. So as long as they switch off right they only build hate never really any loss. Now there is a loss, this means from how I see it a NIN/WAR is going to hold the hate just as well as any other ???/WAR except for PLD/WAR. With possibly a few exceptions to some Jobs depending on the +emnity gear.

As I see it this means in a party of NINs and /NINs the job that isn't a NIN or /NIN will likely build hate faster. For the damage range thing on RNGs that's hard to say how it'll go. The logic on it has so many different variables and possibilities. Also depends how they'll determine the normal damage.

One logic would be if you are as close as possible you'll get normal Range damage you do now, in a way that'll kind of suck. Then at the furthest possible range you are likely to miss or do nearly no damage.

The other logic would be somewere mid-range would be normal damage and close range being 2x and far range being 1/2. In either case though for damage potential I still see RNG/WAR being tops, RNG/NIN will have a nice effect though now of loosing hate easier without taking a hit and possibly less Utsusemi used. In the case of AoEs even though being a RNG/WAR I haven't worried about taking them or not as long as I don't draw hate right after.

With this effect it also seems to add NIN and THF partners as another potential with PLDs to create nice trick combinations. Were a party of RNG, PLD, NIN, THF, and others could create a variety of possibilities and putting PLDs cover ability to much greater functions.

[Vinen]

Originally posted by ZQM
[B]
I also don't understand why they would just nerf Utsusemi. PLDs still have AA Rot.

AA Rot isn't one person. Its the Paladin + 2-3 SMN or /SMN. Its a group effort, which is why its ok~

[ZQM]

And blink tanking isn't a group effort? The NIN+WAR isn't the one putting Titan's stoneskin, NIN+WAR isn't the one Elegying the mob, NIN+WAR isn't the one stunning it, NIN+WAR isn't the one cure bombing when shadows are stripped.

It's still the same basic method, using a spell to dodge hits.

[Intensity]

Two things I want to comment on.

1: Being a RNG, I'm excited about the fact that we're going to be given the chance to apply some form of "skill" to our jobs. Don't get me wrong, being a dmg machine is extremely gratifying, but the act of spamming my rng atk macro can get boring. I'm glad we're going to be more "Tactically involved".

2: Being a RNG/NIN, the fact that when I generate too much hate from dealing uber dmg, I'm going to appreciate that having my 3 shadows wiped from me will actually make me lose hate in that process rather than keeping the hate I've generated through the fight.

So I say Yayyyyy NERF!

[Macht]

Originally posted by ZQM
And blink tanking isn't a group effort? The NIN+WAR isn't the one putting Titan's stoneskin, NIN+WAR isn't the one Elegying the mob, NIN+WAR isn't the one stunning it, NIN+WAR isn't the one cure bombing when shadows are stripped.

It's still the same basic method, using a spell to dodge hits.

I'm guessing this is focused at me, but the cure bombing is exactly the point I was making. The one curing is going to build up hate pretty fast to a whole group loosing it, so I just see that in an all NIN or /NIN party just sounds like the mages will have higher risk potentials if all of them are loosing hate.

[ZQM]

Originally posted by Macht
I'm guessing this is focused at me, but the cure bombing is exactly the point I was making.

No, my comment was towards Vinen.

[Takhisis]

Nah, Ninja as tank in exp PT probably won't make that much of a difference since alot times i PT with ninja that can keep hate really well and fights usually aren't last that long. However it does going to effect big boss HNMs because ninjutsu doesn't deal that much dammage on them compare to exp monster.

Rng will probably get some serius problem. First ranger attack depends on distand between players and target. Well, that won't be a problem once people learn how it works. The most serius change for ranger is going to be:

In addition, the higher the monster's level is with regard to the player, the less damage will be dealt with a ranged attack. This system is similar to that of melee attacks, but the difference in damage will not be as great.

What lvl are those high end HNMs? example like Kirin, Is it lvl 85 or 90? This change is going to be a straight re-modify on range attack dammage. Dammage reduction on higher lvl monsters is going to be a direct effect on rangers performence. No matter how skill you are or you believe you are, this change will still effect rangers because they are going to modify the formula that used to caculating range attack dammage on higher lvl monsters. Fights won't be as fast as it use to be with alot rangers put in the PT after update. But rangers probably still plays main role in most of the kiting fight. Range attack/magic is better than melee attack on kiting. It makes an easier job for tanks to survive because they don't have to stop kiting and let melee to do weapon skill.

All i can see is SE trying to make things harder for players to fight. But instead of upgrade/remodify the monsters themself, they modify both Key Jobs people using most the time these days because their unmatched abilities and powers compare to other jobs, make them weaker therefore it also make the fight harder. Just think as this way, You are a guy with a shadows protecting you and a gun in your hand, SE come and take away your shadows and your gun. Now, you might considering taking out your knife or a coconut on a stick ( Darkknight, Samurai or any other kind of dammage dealers ) and put up your armor ( PLD or War/Pld with full Koenig what ever you like beside blinking <=== OMG flash and heal !1!oneone1! This thing is hawt ) to fight your enemies.

[Jei]

sounds fair... Ranger used to lose almost no damage no matter how strong their enemies are. Unlike all other DDs that the damage reduces by a ton...