OMFG! SE is nerfing NIN and RNG!!!

[neighbortaru]

HA! goodbye arrowburn, hello monk.

seriously though, I don't think it's so bad. NINs will just now need to control their hate better. The good ones will adapt to it fine and the sucky ones will suck more. Heck, maybe this'll create more desirablity for THFs.

The RNG one is not so bad either. People were XPing in areas some 5 levels before they should; I think SE made the right move in toning it down. Hell, RNG will still probably own.

[Spazz]

Square Enix said a long time back that they never intended for the Ninja job to be a tank. But then again, with the right eqipment - any job could tank. So what does this mean exactly... it just means that NINs wont be as capable of tanking as before... but I seriously doubt that it will stop people from doing it.

As for RNGs... Im happy they are making the difference. I personally like the demensions of what it takes to deal damage.

[TheGrandMom]

Well here is my take on this. The Utsusemi issue is going to really hurt some people and not bother others. The people it is going to hurt are people that have a lot of +str/atk gear and not +enmity. It's also going to hurt nin's that don't feel its necessary to cast other nin spells to keep hate. (So in other words the sucky nin's) So these people are going to have to get the +enmity gear and buy the spells and powders. Watch for prices to jump on these items.

Also we don't know the extent to which the enmity reduces. It may be easily compensated for and I'm sure it will be. This doesn't seem like much of a mountain, its more like a speed bump.

The ranged attack issue is interesting. The first part about distance to the mob will be easily overcome. Once people figure out what is the best distance, its a done deal. What I do see this affecting are the people that insist on subbing /war. If the distance to the mob means you'll have to be in aoe range to do the best dmg, you might see a lot of /war's lvling up nin.

Now the lvl difference could see a reduction in rngs solo'ing in the lower lvls. Everyone has seen the rngs solo'ing on worms and getting excellent exp in the lower lvls. If the lvl difference between the two is great enough, the exp will be reduced. But I doubt the reduction will stop this practice entirely. Some may decide not to do it but others will still think it is worth it. Also the distance factor can figure in to this also. Rng's would go at max range from the mob when solo'ing. This could mean their damage could be less at this range. So that might also affect their decision. Also arrowburn pt's will have to adapt. I doubt they will disappear, they'll just have to figure the in's and out's first.

Once again they leave out the specifics in their announcement and leave us all to theorize and obsess about what is to come. LOL

Basically they've just made the rng job more realistic with the distance issue. They also said weapons would affect this which is another realistic addition. On the Utsusemi issue, plds get -enmity each time they are hit so if nin's are going to be tanks, why not? Sounds logical to me. Now I'm not saying its a good thing for nin's but it certainly is logical.

I'm sure the uproar will be great and NERF will be heard all around Vana'diel. People fear change instead of embracing it and adapting. I think they will be easily overcome and people will adjust in time. Some will just adjust more loudly than others.

[Feenicks]

I don't think that this is nearly as bad as some people are making it out to be. This move will simply seperate the men from the boys when it comes to NIN tanks.

I don't believe it's a move to shift NIN towards a DD role as some people are saying. If that were true then SE would have introduced Throwing WSs and cheap Shurikens.

[Gman]

To whoever mentioned RDM "monopoly" and non-existant BRD, I got 2 things to say.

1) A lot of people are leveling BRD nowadays. There will be a lot more of them soon.

2) There are already TONS of high level RDM's. It's actually HARD to find a pt in a timely manner as a rdm at my level. We may be needed, but there are only room for so many of us, and if your timing is bad when you want to LFG, you may be waiting a while.

[Niland]

hmm, well before we moan we should really wait to see how fast a blinker will lose hate. really depends on that.

if its a major enmity decrease per blink: then its a significant change in how the game plays. its hard to predict the impact.

i feel a bit messed around by SE over the last few patches as a ninja. i'm happy to be a 'tank' but if i'm not then what to do^^

we'll have to wait i guess.

[Kailea]

i feel a bit messed around by SE over the last few patches as a ninja. i'm happy to be a 'tank' but if i'm not then what to do^^

you deal damage and make the monster weak to elements, and then if you happen to get hate you blink it off. this is how NIN should have been used in the first place

[Blood Red Poet]

SE NERFeD MY HANDS. I Can'T PICK UP SPORKS.

[Pounce]

NIN should remain a tank. That's not to say it shouldn't/can't be used as a DD, but the job should always keep the ability to tank.

It's bad enough already that most WARs won't/can't tank at higher levels. Completely gimping NIN's tanking ability would give PLD the total monopoly of the party tank slot.

The current situation though, is that NIN has almost totally eclipsed the PLD, more in part due to the lazy, but highly demanded, mages (who hate having to heal PLD) than the NIN themselves.

(which begs the question, WTF are you doing playing a WHM in the first place?)

Ideally the desireability of PLD and NIN (and even WAR) should be more or less equal, depending on party setup, mob type, etc., but these days it's almost always NIN for teh win!!!!. I mentioned this before, but I haven't had the pleasure of having a PLD tank for the longest time now, because there simply aren't any available.

As for RDM and BRD again, the fact that I haven't had a BRD in over 100+ levels on my new character seems to indicate BRD is just as nonexistant as ever.

[DariusD]

This could go either way for ninjas, this could lead to the job being unable to function without a thief or a 2ndary tank, or this would just be a miniscule hurdle that skilled ninjas could easily recover from.
This is however a nerf nonetheless because doing things like having ninjas blink tanking wryms, and other HNMs will become that much harder, this will lead to others having to work with the ninja to try and reduce their hate so the ninja can tank better. Bcnms like omega/ultima weapon will also be more of a challenge as well as some ENMs instead of ninja being the end all of tanks. We all know what can happen in a bcnm if the tank loses hate even just for a second, especially against HNMs like tiamat jormungand and etc.
This will also effect leveling ninja during lower levels where it's hard enough to keep hate as it is and not having that good +emnity gear that's available at higher levels. Like someone pointed out earlier doing things like shurikens just isn't possible since the costs doesn't even warrant the dmg.
Whenever there are changes like this we always find new ways to overcome the changes.

[silvaniawinged]

man there are a lot of chicken littles running around here


"oh the xp nerf - now everyone and their dog will be 75 in a day"

"oh nins are NERFed, nerfed i tells ya - cause you know there's not more than one way to nin tank"

"the sky, she is a fallin"

how many updates will it take for people to calm down and wait to see the actual implementation before getting their panties in a knot?

[Tan'o]

Originally posted by Pounce
The current situation though, is that NIN has almost totally eclipsed the PLD, more in part due to the lazy, but highly demanded, mages (who hate having to heal PLD) than the NIN themselves.

NIN well-played is a more efficient tank than PLD, but Mages usually consume the same amount of mp because in reality, how many NIN actually hold hate well. I'm not asking about your friend who actually spins the ele wheel, or the intelligent players(not many) but your average NIN. Not many.

Those random hits on the melee, hit much harder than they would on a PLD, and once you start tossing out Cure IV's and V's, hate control is pretty much shot, leading to more cures. Most PLD can keep hate even after a high damage WS, (600+) while taking a little damage themselves.

edit: spelling.

[Cali]

Originally posted by Blood Red Poet
SE NERFeD MY HANDS. I Can'T PICK UP SPORKS.

Time to use spoon and fork then!

I like a lot of the replies.

"Change != Nerf"
"Seperate the men from the boys"



Well, I hope they change DRG too...

[ZQM]

I doubt this will hurt NIN much at all, NIN has a ton of hate tools too choose from. I also doubt this will make a difference in exp, considering fights are so short.

Ninja aren't the only blink tanks though. Warriors blink tank aswell, and this will hurt the Warrior class more then any other. Our advantage is having the highest enmity in the game, and this update basically gets rid of that. Everytime I get hit, I lose a big amount of hate. Now I will be constantly losing hate as if I get hit over and over again. Even if it's only a small amount of hate lost per shadow, overtime that'll build up to a lot. That last 1% on Tiamat is already a druken frenzy with people trying to finish him off, it's going to be even harder keeping hate through that spending the last 1 and a half hour getting my hate depleted.

A lot of updates hurt Warrior badly (Another example, the Shield change), but hardly anybody ever realizes it because nobody opens their eyes wide enough to see a WAR tank at work. We already get so much shit from people on how we "can't tank," I'm fucking tired of SE hurting it even more.

(By the way, crying about other people crying doesn't make you look cool. If you have a problem with people ranting on a forum, why are you ranting on a forum?)

[ShadowHeart]

Hmm, the Nin "nerfing" is a bit overrated if you ask me - and since I personally like PTing with Pld's over Nin's, it really doesn't hurt me.

But this means that there really is only 1 "real" tank, pld; well war too but you know what i mean.

MAYBE! and just maybe a new tanking job will be added - i remember reading a little while ago that around the the XB360 release of FFXI, new jobs will be added ... Couldn't this Nin nerfing mean that they are trying to make room for a new tank class?