Shiva Claim Bot

[Macht]

If it becomes a necessity SE can definatly monitor what's running on your system. It's just simple use of API functions to strip the system to it's core and get the list of running processes from that. Since you have their software on their system if they had an update with that change to the coding then they'd just have your system sending them that data.

Of course then there is issues of privacy policies so if they do something like that probably mean yet another message for the PC players to confirm on in order to continue. Immediatly I can see something like that killing the applicable use that a windower would have. Then have it monitor the send messages for opening a file, if it sees something else attempt to open one of their files kill the process immediatly or if it can't be killed flag them to the GMs or whoever needs to know.

Of course there's way around that still but depending how far you go the possibility of getting around it gets harder and harder.

[kuu]

If it becomes a necessity SE can definatly monitor what's running on your system. It's just simple use of API functions to strip the system to it's core and get the list of running processes from that. Since you have their software on their system if they had an update with that change to the coding then they'd just have your system sending them that data.

Not really, then hackers will just reverse hook it, poof and back to old days. If you wanted to get really advance, 2nd compute on the network to sniff would be impossible to stop.

S-E knew will never win a battle of arms when they decided to go mmo on a pc.
IF ffxi were limited to PS2, then yes they would have a lot more control.

There is no way esensially to stop this unless you encrypt, and S-E will be the one forking the bill if they tried.

Actually FFxi isn't nearly as unprotected as you think. S-E didn't make it easy for sniffers, it takes a fair amount of skill and time to figure it out. When compared to mmo's like WoW, it's like doing Calculus vs algebra,[WoW is much easier to sniff/hack/mod. Heck WoW even let's you offically mod the interface]

With that said, it's very hard to catch a high end claim bot in the act, without implimenting some kind of time delay recorder. But developers aren't stupid, there is always ideas tossed around if it gets worse, something as simple as the "pop claimed 2second glitch" has been known to kill bots, if it not a whole bunch of other problems.

The problem is, manpower and priority. Do you want New NM,zones, Jobs. Or you want to stop claims. There's give and take here.

[Asharu]

All they would need to do is extend the Ground HNM pop times from 0-3 hours, to let's say 0-6 or 0-8 hours... WITHOUT any 30-min intervals. That way it's just a race to see who can get there first. I don't think SE would find it difficult to change that... they just don't want to and laugh at us MPKing ourselves instead

Evil.

[Jei]

I didn't quite get what your mean. Extend their pop time? As for ground HNM, people always wait before their pop time arrives. So having to stay focus for longer hours will only give more advantage to bots.

Ground HNM used to have 72 -/+6 hours pop timing ... camping them for 12 hours can really kill your brain cell >.<

[Takhisis]

Extend only 3 hours isn't enough. Based on your idea, I would say extend the spawn time from 3 hours to 15 hours. So it will become 21 hours + 15 hours spawn time. So what if people bot? Let them bot, but most likely they will just get themself killed because when they claim probably only the bot is still there while his whole alliance has fall asleep. Also this will fix the problem JP and NA try to grab the ToD into their timezone, it will be pointless.
No one will interested in even camping it if big chance is the HNM probably will spawn at the last min since the window open, That will be 15 hours of waiting. Unleast people make a more advanced bot that can even perform actions to kill the HNM such as Fafnir on 18 computers. . . If such a bot exist, I feel sorry for the gil farmers though because they will probably lose their job and replace by a program.

This still will have problem in it. A widescan bot. (Such a bot probably already existed for the CoP dragons) Put a Rng or Bst in the zone, widescan at all time and auto use LS chat to let the LS know when the HNM pop on the scan. So the LS would still get a first hand imformation on the HNM when it spawn. This only works if the LS have enough people at the time of spawn though.
But then people will probably go out and start MPK this kind of botters. . .

There is no PC version MMO game in the history is "bot free" or "cheat free" as long as there is a point for them to create it at the first place. Only way to counter them is leave them no point to even create the bot. So what if you have a "Ultima Claim Bot" if your LS mates don't even want to camp it for a chance of 15 hours of waiting? People camp it now because the knew it will spawn within 3 hours tops. Will people still camp it if they know there is a chance the NM will spawn 15 hours later? I know i won't do it.


Just my opinion.

[Jei]

longer wait time as I see will only encourage more botting. It's not fun to wait manually over and over. People will get tired and only the bots will remain at the end. To fix this they have to take away the faster claiming chance of bots, not make the fair players suffer more.

[Takhisis]

Jei, you are missing my point here. What i mean is even if people has claim bot and they claim the monster. They still need a full alliance in there controlled by players to kill it. If the HNM is a 15 hours spawn time. Players won't camp and stay up for that long, only the claim botters can. And when the claim botters claims it, They will only get themself killed for nothing if all or most of his LS mates all log out or fall asleep.

[Jei]

It still come down to the same result to me.... because in order to prevent the botters you are also chasing the fair players away. Everyone will start camp right at the biginning. And if the HNM pops fast, botters will still win the claim. Pops slow, and everyone will be sleepy and leave to sleep? I don't think so. People will also get angry, frustrated and discouraged.

And at the end, it's the alliance that can stay up the whole time AND use bots that will always win the claim. Of course, they are the multi-box sharing accounts gilsellers...

[Takhisis]

Believe me gilsellers won't camp it if it's 15 hours pop. It's not profitable for them for 15 hours. Killing Wabbits in West Ronfield is faster money making if anyone even going to camp one single HNM for 15 hours.

About chasing the fairly players away. I think it depends on what you like. I personally don't like the idea of Camping something. I would rather prefer something like "Hey <insert NM name here> it's up! No one is fighting it." "Let's go kill it!" kinda thing. Camping something for 3 hours, staring at the screen scratching your butt hoping it can spawn sooner. And if it finally pops and by any chance my alliance beat all other botter and get the claim, (I wonder how to beat a botter without botting myself . . .) It only takes 30 mins to kill it. What's the fun in that? 3 hours waitting for 30 mins of fun to kill it? It just not right.

I am not those kinda people who likes to claim and kill the HNM everyday and get every drop from it to themself. Once in a while i have a chance to fight and kill it if that is my lucky day it's enough for me. But with claim botters and HNM LS who likes to kill the same thing everyday.( Yes even satureday and sunday. can you believe that. I wonder if they go to work like they camp HNMs, 7 days a week. ) That's not going to happen forever. The game now isn't about if you can kill the monster or not. It's about if you can claim it or not.

[Takhisis]

Also you said about "People will probably camp it at begining and if it pop sooner, botter still gets it."

I can ensure you nobody will camp it if it's 15 hours spawn time. People camp it now because they know the 3 hours they spent on camping it. At the end they will atleast still see something spawn 100% sure. There will be a chance for them to claim it and those who don't bot will just die trying. If it's 15 hours spawn time, they don't even sure the hours they are about to spent (5 hours? 10 hours for hardcore players?) even going let them see the monster. If today they camp for 7 hours with 18 people, it didn't pop they give up. The next day they camp again without knowing when did it died. Good luck.

Just ask yourself a question. How many days you can keep camping something that might pop between 15 hours even if Bill Gate will bet all his money on you because he knows you have 113.48% chance to get the claim? Everyday? One month? One week? One day? If you do, congratulation. Now all you need is to find 17 people just like yourself to form an alliance and camp it with you.

That's why i am 98.48% sure no one will really going to camp it if it's 15 hours spawn time. Well, 1.52% not sure because there might be some Ultima Hardcore "Uber" players out there that might will . . .

[Jei]

At cap 60, ground HNM pop times were still -/+6 hours. 12 hours span time.

And my LS always camped them straight form the beginning to the end... together with a few other LS.

I fell asleep a few times, but my alliance were always there.

[Takhisis]

That's why i said about this idea suggested by the original poster about 6 or 8 hours isn't enough. Because i know there are really hardcore players who can stay up and camp something for 6-8 hours. The timing has to be double. 15 hours then you won't even see a soul wondering around the camp.

[lionx]

Just wondering, how would this affect HNMLSs though? If they cannot claim monsters at a reasonable rate then why would anyone bother with them..?

[Takhisis]

I see you point about 6+/- back to the lvl 60 cap "The good old days". Back then SE changed the 6+/- hours into 3+/- now because alot people tired of waiting and suggest them. But you must know back then there wasn't any claiming bot out there yet. but things changed now, claiming isn't Fair like "The good old days". You can't beat those botter without using the bot yourself. No matter how hard SE try, Botting can't be beat by changing anything. A well programed bot will always beat those who play fair. They can update something for the bot not working for couple days. But it will only take couple days for the bot creater find out what did SE change and counter them. It's the same as every other MMO out there. Only way to beat bots is to make the bot meaningless even if they will successful runing in the game. Yeah sure, someone has claim bot and they can claim NM 100% sure. But who will be there to kill the NM for the botter the moment it claim the NM if everyone give up to camp it?

[Takhisis]

I didn't say it would effect the HNMLS. HNMLS can still be HNMLS. It will just change the way it works on who will be the lucky HNMLS to fight and kill the HNM. It won't change HNMLS in anything.

Or do you mean HNMLS that has some "Higher rate on claiming NMs" which you refered to. Then there isn't much of those HNMLS out there. Usually only 1 or 2 of those kinda LS who seems to have "Higher rate on claiming NMs" on each server. But if you mean HNMLS which are people that gathered together seeking out challenge and defeat tougher if not the toughest one. Then there are many of them out there. Yeah, this might change something on those "Higher rate on claiming NMs" HNMLSs, but on the other hand, it also give more fairly chance to those "Lower rate on claiming NMs" HNMLSs.