Shiva Claim Bot

[lionx]

I mean more like..you just started an HNM LS..you want to camp..say Roc or whatever..you SIT there for 4 hours straight..no pop...alliance feels tired and bummed out....i am just wondering how many of these sittings are people going to take before quitting the HNM scene? Not everyone is hardcore in that sense where they can sit there 5+ hours..

[Takhisis]

If no one is camping the HNM. The NM will be there unclaim for a good while before someone found out it's up and their LS can go there and kill it.

You also said about how people camp something for nothing. Not much chance to fight something they wanted to fight for a very long time. Go ask those "Lower rate on claiming NMs" HNM LSs in your server for advice. I am sure there are plenty of them and they have plenty of story/advice how they survived after all these time.

Also you said something about camping. My idea is Don't go camp them at all. Why must people think camping is a good thing? Is the reward from the camping and waitting itself, or is it from killing the NM itself? Just let it be, if the NM is up and your LS happen to spot it then gather together and go kill it.

Well, i know this idea probably will piss alot hardcore players who used to claim most, if not all the ground HNMs everyday. This will like the "Doom" of their HNM career. . . But just remember, this isn't real, it's just a talking and sharing opinions and ideas on a forum. No harm has done yet until SE do make this change.

[Takhisis]

I am so sorry. The server had a technical problem for a moment and i clicked refresh once and double posted >.<
Deeply applogize.

Also *Puts on antiflame suit* if in my posts i have physically or mentally harm anyone or make them discomfort. this will be my formally deeply applogize to them. I was just thinking about speak out my mind and share my opinions on the matters according to the Post. Sorry if you do feel like anger toward my posts.

[lionx]

Well thats not the point. The point is the LSs that dont get alot of HNMs for whatever reason at least get to see the HNM and know that we can get it. Now should the time be so widely changed, people wont camp it. And why would anyone make an HNM LS then? Unless people are going to give up all their other LSs just to stay on that one and unless they are willing to drop whatever they are doing in the current moment to take an HNM...then yeah maybe..but i bet we will see alot of people doing ZMs or something and then OMG HNM pop..or exping then say to the PT sorry gotta go LS needs me! >_>

I think the reason why we have HNM LSs now is that people can easily gather to a spot and camp an HNM with an entire LS. Therefore it wont be so much of a hassle because we KNOW that besides those 3ish hours of waiting, we can do whatever else we want. I dont know if i am saying this right or not..i have a bad way of putting things out sometimes -_-; But do you get where i am going? If it takes so long to pop and assuming no one camps it, is anyone going to take the trouble to call everyone(not all HNM LSs make people go on it 24/7..some only go on when its about spawn time) to fight this HNM? What if no one wants to go or are in a middle of something important? Screwed? Do we cancel all plans to take this HNM?

Maybe the best thing is Trade => Pop kinda thing..

[Jei]

Yea when I first did HNM, all I wanted to do was to have a chance to battle against Behemoth. It doesn't feel like FFXI without it.

Back on the topic. I really believe that people will camp the HNM for however long it takes to pop.... also the point lionx pointed out, it is too discouraging to let people wait for that long. After a while people will reach their limits, can't take it anymore and quit hunting them.

I want HNM to be fun. Fixing the bot problem yes but don't take away the fun >.<

[Asharu]

Originally posted by Jei
I want HNM to be fun. Fixing the bot problem yes but don't take away the fun >.<

Jei, I don't think we'll ever see the day when HNMs become fun again. There's simply too much greed/competition/cheating going on for them.

Another reason why HNM LS's camp ground HNMs is for the abjurations. An alternate source for these specific abjurations would be a warm welcome.

[Takhisis]

Well my posts was sololy respond to the topic itself. All it's base on my opinions on how to counter those claim bots.

Lionx,It seems to me you are happy wtih what you have now. Maybe your server is bot free. . . Or, Do your LS claim HNM very often? Is it someone else claim it for you? Do you ever wonder why is it they seems always get the claim? Well, most the time i ask those question people will just give me an anwser something like "Why the f**k do i care, as long as they get the claim and i will kill it. I am happy with what it is now! I don't even care how they get the claim as long as they get it and i get the items." Ground HNM can't make everyone happy because it doesn't pop that often. This topic is about how to counter people that bots and only make themself happy while making other people sad.

A HNMLS isn't just a LS for items. Well some of them is. . .But most HNM LS has friendships beside getting items out of it. From your opinions, if a HNMLS can't get any claim or kill HNM often isn't a HNMLS even though they can kill it? I will disaggree wtih you on that.

My idea is just showing a possible way to wipe those bots from FFXI. There are many HNM LS and people who has problems against those LS who use bots. Of course, A problem has many solutions. Mines just one possibility. There might be another even better one which will make everyone happy. *I highly doulbt it, as long as those HNM only pop once a day. Can't make everyone happy.* The problem with botting is it's not fair playing. With that, no one can bot and it's fairly playing for everyone on some degree.

If you have a better idea and solution. Why not speak it out? I will look forward to a better idea from anyone. I know mines isn't all that good either.

Some people said something about delay the monster on available to claim after it appear. I think that's not so bad. But i have a feeling people still able to find a way to cheat on that. . .

Anyway, SE doesn't give a flying shit on how people fight over a HNM. Their priority is quests, missions and bug. Claiming and botting a HNM is just players problem, not theirs. Our little chat over here just means . . . talk, nothing more. As long as they don't catch you using a bot, it's all "Legal".

[Takhisis]

Well, if FFXI was release on PS2 only. Then we all won't be here talking silly problems like this. SE find that PC has a fairly good market. What can we do. . . /sigh

[Manatra]

All they need to do is simply make the ground HNM obsolete by adding new ones, albeit, they don't pop. Which they may do in the next update.

In other words, what I'm saying is, make most of the new NM ENMs and/or trigger pops etc. Which I do believe they're already doing. SE I think has been experimenting with ENMs and trigger pops the last few months, seeing how the community reacts. If they actually sit back and make creative ENMs that are difficult, fun, and have good rewards, that would solve alot of the problems that the level 75 people in FFXI are currently having.

However, if they just add some more NMs along the lines of Fafnir/Nidhogg style pop systems... It'll just really be bad >.>

[Anaki]

i wonder how hard would it be to have a program that starts with FFXI tha does a scan to see if your using any bots?

[Manatra]

Originally posted by Anaki
i wonder how hard would it be to have a program that starts with FFXI tha does a scan to see if your using any bots?

It's not hard, the problem is the arms race so to speak that would develop between SE and the people making the hacks.

[Ghostraven]

Idea to stop HNM and NM botting

I recently checked out a FFXI hacking/botting forum... It's disgusting the amount of people using and developing bots for this game I had no idea....

If square doesn't do something I see this game going the direction of Dreamcast PSO... How long before someone develops a duping method lol.

How about making HNM's Pop in more zones than one...
This way no bots can just sit in one area (like argus) and be successful.

HNM could pop in a variety of zones, but to avoid random PT getting killed while levelling on exp mobs have the HNM aggro time a bit longer, so lets say you are levelling and HNM pops on your PT you have a good 60 secs before it aggros?
Sure this is more hectic for PTing but I think it adds an element of danger and excitement that can break the usual boring levelling grind. I love when my PT gets adds sometimes during XP because it breaks the monotony. Usually after such an event we are all spamming (fun) (excitement) in PT chat lol.

[Icemage]

(1) Bots aren't unbeatable. Somewhat hard to beat in certain circumstances, maybe. Impossible? Hardly.

(2) Changing the spawn patterns for NMs won't make a significant impact on how many people will camp them, except as it affects the rarity of the items acquired from such. Serious HNMLS will camp the NMs they want as long as the items so acquired are worth the time.

The real solutions to the bot problem involve instancing like ENM/BCNM, as well as making battle environments which are hostile to botting. Some battlezones are simply too easy to bot (Behemoth's Dominion comes to mind). Others are virtually impossible. The Bloodsucker NM in Bostaineux Oubliette is an excellent example of a virtually unbottable environment.


Icemage

[Manatra]

Originally posted by Icemage
(1) Bots aren't unbeatable. Somewhat hard to beat in certain circumstances, maybe. Impossible? Hardly.
Icemage

Aimbots in FPS are beatable too. :p

[lionx]

Originally posted by Takhisis
Well my posts was sololy respond to the topic itself. All it's base on my opinions on how to counter those claim bots.

Lionx,It seems to me you are happy wtih what you have now. Maybe your server is bot free. . . Or, Do your LS claim HNM very often? Is it someone else claim it for you? Do you ever wonder why is it they seems always get the claim? Well, most the time i ask those question people will just give me an anwser something like "Why the f**k do i care, as long as they get the claim and i will kill it. I am happy with what it is now! I don't even care how they get the claim as long as they get it and i get the items." Ground HNM can't make everyone happy because it doesn't pop that often. This topic is about how to counter people that bots and only make themself happy while making other people sad.

A HNMLS isn't just a LS for items. Well some of them is. . .But most HNM LS has friendships beside getting items out of it. From your opinions, if a HNMLS can't get any claim or kill HNM often isn't a HNMLS even though they can kill it? I will disaggree wtih you on that.

My idea is just showing a possible way to wipe those bots from FFXI. There are many HNM LS and people who has problems against those LS who use bots. Of course, A problem has many solutions. Mines just one possibility. There might be another even better one which will make everyone happy. *I highly doulbt it, as long as those HNM only pop once a day. Can't make everyone happy.* The problem with botting is it's not fair playing. With that, no one can bot and it's fairly playing for everyone on some degree.

If you have a better idea and solution. Why not speak it out? I will look forward to a better idea from anyone. I know mines isn't all that good either.

Some people said something about delay the monster on available to claim after it appear. I think that's not so bad. But i have a feeling people still able to find a way to cheat on that. . .

Anyway, SE doesn't give a flying shit on how people fight over a HNM. Their priority is quests, missions and bug. Claiming and botting a HNM is just players problem, not theirs. Our little chat over here just means . . . talk, nothing more. As long as they don't catch you using a bot, it's all "Legal".

Um i actually barely even do HNM..i did somehow got invited to one through a friend, its new and we are just getting started. We sometimes get HNMs, sometimes we dont. I say it is kinda 50/50. But its ground HNMs only, we are newbs at it and refining ourselves However HNM is never my main focus in the game, and its mostly spending time with friends.

While that is the topic at hand what you put for us to give opinions on..i feel that while its good in theory, it might not hold up is all. Its just a counterpoint, its how we know the shortcommings of ideas and how we can maybe find a compromise. I aint saying its not a great idea, because i know where you are comming from. But gotta think what would people do if it happened?

About your second paragraph, what i meant was...are people going to stand being in an HNMLS? I mean in the end most HNM LSs are about actually getting to fight the HNM. If its so wild and varied, would everyone drop whatever they are doing(including BCNMs, CoP/ZM/Nation Missions, Events?) to gather to kill the HNM? If its so varied, we cant plan to do anything at all. I mean lets say we planned to say go fishing or something the entire LS. If Roc spawns do we drop everything to go fight it? If not when do we fight it? Just sit there and HOPE it comes? What if it doesnt come for 6 hours? Would people STILL sit there? Most people probably wont. It works in theory but then it makes Ground HNMs kinda obsolete to even care about. I am sure theres LSs that still will kill it however how many people will get fed up that? If it doesnt pop enough, and is too random, then organization would be harder i would expect.

At the moment all i can think of is that all HNMs, instead of the spawn => Claim...would be Trade => Pop somehow. Maybe a hard boss fight for an item or something like that, then trade to take them on. And maybe a 8 hour downtime since trade or 12 hour or something...



somehow i feel putting it in more areas dont matter...some bots over there and here...and then all they have to do is hold it til they move over.