dear people who buy gil with real money

[csBahamut]

I dont think most of us will be playing in 100 days

Ah, now see. You just want to beat an unbeatable game. The purpose of MMORPGs and the like, is for people to play for years, not a couple months. You want a quick game, there's CRPGs for that.

http://www.themis-group.com/whitepapers.phtml

The Pitfalls of Virtual Property (April 2004) - 140k PDF file, 23 pages
Covers most if not all of the count|counterpoints in this topic.

Anybody been reading this?

So, if you can do ANYTHING you want in FFXI, I DARE you to call a GM, yell strings of profanity and insults at them, and then claim you can do ANYTHING you want since you are paying $13/month for this game. Tell everyone in the thread what happens too. I have a feeling that you CAN'T do ANYTHING you want. Don't like that one? How about you press a key on your keyboard to magically make your character level 99. Oh wait, you can't do THAT either. Hrmm...maybe you could try this. Imagine a giant 100 pound weight landing on my head smashing and killing me. Uh oh, I did it again, something else you CAN'T do.

[Onte]

Nice analogy there, but only one foam bat is the "Bat of Truth."

Too bad the bat of your truth isn't nearly as strong a the bat of reality. Why in the hell do you even care? You're sitting here arguing passionately about a "problem" you see in a video game as someone else would argue the benefits of a nat'l ID card or eating meat. Why the hell do you care? These people aren't rolling on your precious HNM loots - hell, they aren't even partying with you. They're buying cash to ensure they can level their continuous string of level 20 jobs with some Bone +1 and a decent weapon.

And as for the gil campers? I know you're going to argue that they're monopolizing spawns, etc cry cry cry. Sure they are. They'd still be monopolizing those spawns whether they were selling gil on Ebay or not.

If you have issue with this practice, then bring it up with SE because they damn well know it's going on and they aren't exactly doing anything about it, are they? Guess it's not such a huge problem, then, is it? They haven't taken action and I guarantee this has been going on since the first month of JP release, so I guess they don't feel it's ruining their game, eh? Keeping some casuals playing, isn't it?

[Faust]

No flames being made, and none being attempted.

People who cheat in the game ARE cheaters. I'm not calling them some creatively done derogatory term. Merely making a statement. And seeing that most people that I know that cheat tend to be lazy as well, well... I slipped that in too. If I wanted to flame, I'd go into the "you're momma" stuff or into childish name calling which I would hope everyone here is above doing.

Individual beliefs and circumstance. I agree. The reason I voice my opinion is because it affects me. How? How about getting MPK'd because of someone gil selling and not liking the idea of competing with someone playing the game to play the game(proof? too me it's obvious with some of the stuff that's going on).

I never said that a person who buys gil is a bad player, nor have I said that I was a better player than they were. Only that I don't agree and that I don't respect them for what they've done. Could they have gotten there without cheating? Sure, might've taken a little longer, but it can be done and I'd respect someone more who played the game the way it was meant to be played than someone who did it by cheating.

[emitsu97]

Well put Faust. I agree with you on many fronts. I wasn't meaning to single out your posts regarding the name calling, I just used some of the nice names I didn't feel like repeating profanity, not my style. Plus I needed something to put in between my foam bat beatings.

I don't agree with MPK for the sake of gil either. That comes down to the integrity of that particular player. There should be better safeguards to prevent stuff like that. But unfortunately, given the inherent inner evil most ppl possess, the more you safeguard, the more creative they get.

I don't want anyone in this thread to take my posts personally, I'm not meaning to target. Just realize there's a limitless amount of factors to any debatable issue. Hence the debatability (lol is that even a word). Please try to post with a bit of an open mind with out slander or bias or categorizing. Not everyone fits the mental mold most people have of others. I don't know anyone who likes to be profiled. Accept for cool Asian ppl Who wouldn't want to be a Martial Arts Expert Computer Guru. That's the stuff that dreams are made of.

[Faust]

I'm asian... into martial arts... and I'm a PC Tech...

:sweat:

I suck at math though...

I didn't feel I was being targeted emitsu97, however after you posted, I realized that other people may mistake some of the things I say for flaming. Just felt I had to clarify.

Ok, back to what we were discussing...

NEXT!

[emitsu97]

Before we get back on topic...

Before we get back on topic...

Sometimes I dream....that he is me....(don't know the rest )

Like Faust, if I could be like Faust!!

It helps if you play the "Like Mike" song in your head.

OK, fighters out of your corners!!! Game on!!

[LawDawg]

i really dont think buying gil makes you a lazy person... theres a difference between not wanting to do something and wanting to maximize your time effeciency. Most people who buy gil arent the ones who are like, "farming? too tough! im too lazy to hit the same buttons for 102131238 hours!" ... but rather the ones who have already been farming for quite a while, and just need a little extra gil so they can go back to exping. Its just like calling fish botters lazy..... they arent lazy, but why would you want to do the same repetitive task over and over and over (hmm sounds like farming) when you can automate it using a bot? sounds pretty smart to me (even if it is cheating).

[Faust]

Originally posted by LawDawg
(even if it is cheating).

That's the point.

It's cheating.

As far as being lazy, I dunno. Giving up on making gil legitimitely because you're tired of doing something, or because you don't wanna do something over and over (even though there are many other things to do)... sounds kinda like being lazy to me. I don't fish personally because I DO find it boring. So, I find another legitimate way to make gil.

Breaking the rules and cheating simply for convenience does not make it any better.

[emitsu97]

What if fishing was the only method of gil gathering?

It's personal tolerance.

Some ppl can withstand a scorching fork to the eye while others cry when the wind blows.

SE needs to broaden it's available gil gathering methods for various play styles and tolerances. Of course, keeping the gil output respective to the difficulty. I'd rather do something more fun for less gil than something I dread for more. And why not make gil gathering more skill based as opposed to random? And when I say skill I don't mean lvl 75's will romp. I mean an actual reflex based skill. Or something of that nature.

[Burzum]

Response to PPL who Buy Gil for $$$

OK as there are 174 posts on that I thread I doubt ppl would get to mine or am I going to read that many posts so I'm sorry if I repeat anything that anyone else has already stated.... This is what I boils down to.... Online Gaming is Entertainment.. So ppl who buy gil are paying for enterainment... so I think there are a few generalizations about each side of the issue:

Generalizations :

Buying Gil is stupid ppl are: (Gen. Have more expendable free time)

1. Unemployed - if you have 6-8 hours a day to play a day or Farm then in all fairness you don't have a job or not a worthwhile one.

2. Student - once again if you have 6-8 hours to play a day your prob not a good student because if you have thal t much disposable time your prob. blowing off your studies to play or waiting to the last minite to cram get assisnments done...

3. Little to No social life or responsabilities - Some ppl do work, but instead of seeing their girl or going out to throw down some hoops with their buddies they race home... (usually with mommy and daddy) and log on to their cyber world. They have a dead end job maken min. wage an hour so their is to take home work or staying late at the office. They have no kids to takecare of or pick-up from school or make dinner for... So if they aren't worken they are playen...

4. Work, play casually, don't get farm in the game - Ahh yes the casual player... has limited time to play possibly 2-3 hours a day... so it takes them a year a half if not more to make their first lvl 75 job or quit before they even make it. Never experence a fourth the content of the game and have piss poor equipment. Although the game is just something for them to do when they are bored and thus they are fine with this...

PPL who do want to and Do buy Gil (fake money):

1. Work a full-time career type job - They have a much more limited schedule but earn a decent wage so the expense of buying gil is not what you would call a burden. Aka I can spend a few hours wages and finance my characters needs for a few weeks or spend my next 4 days worth of playtime.... hmmm tough call

2. Don't want to Farm and make enough that they can afford to buy gil -

Basically I can't think of a single person who says "man I love farming... I wish I could play a game that all I ever did was farm" so some ppl just don't want to do it.... so it's worth it to them...

3. Want to speed up their progress in the game -

These ppl see it as TIME == MONEY so to spend less time they need to spend money.... Say they want to be able to buy those Leaping Boots at lvl 7 even though this is their first job at lvl 7 or play Ninja properally as their first Adv. Job without needing to spend 2 days farming for every one they PT.

Bottom Line:

Generally ppl who don't buy gil online can't afford to for the generalized reasons listed with always exceptions. PPL who do buy gil are ppl who obviously can afford to... they see their play time as being valuable... thus value == a price that price is how much they are willing to pay for imaginary money so they can better enjoy their gaming experence. If that means blowing so addition money past the required amount to play and they are fine with it as they enjoy their gaming experence then who is anyone to diss them and that's the bottom line. Those sites off a service and OBVIOUSLY if ppl did not desire that service then they would not be in business.

[LawDawg]

Originally posted by emitsu97
What if fishing was the only method of gil gathering?

It's personal tolerance.

Some ppl can withstand a scorching fork to the eye while others cry when the wind blows.

SE needs to broaden it's available gil gathering methods for various play styles and tolerances. Of course, keeping the gil output respective to the difficulty. I'd rather do something more fun for less gil than something I dread for more. And why not make gil gathering more skill based as opposed to random? And when I say skill I don't mean lvl 75's will romp. I mean an actual reflex based skill. Or something of that nature.

I can't agree more. SE needs to make more "mini-games" (that can't be easily exploited by bots, or errors... is this even possible?) which are more fun and require practice and SKILL. Farming does not take skill....

[Faust]

Originally posted by emitsu97
What if fishing was the only method of gil gathering?

Then I wouldn't play this game. Thankfully, it's not the only way to make gil.

[emitsu97]

That's my point, you enjoy the game but you wouldn't tolerate it if the only method available to you was too gruesomely boring or time consuming to continue with it. You'd miss playing a great game cause the only method of gil gathering was hindering your progress. Now what about those ppl who don't have the time or tolerance for farming? Not to mention farming directly affects alot of players ability to level in a lot of major areas. Why can't there be an alternative for those with minimal time to play, would like to enjoy the time they have playing, as well as use that time to help further they're progress in the game all in the same action? Why can't there be an official Casino of sorts? Or a Golin game house with games of skill? Pay more gil for higher difficulty and higher payout. Leave the mobs alone so ppl can level. Just some ideas.

[Faust]

The thing is, fishing ISN'T the only way to make gil.

There's plenty of ways already. Granted, I also think there could be more too and a Goblin casino doesn't sound all too bad. You're bringing up legit ideas, which is good. The fact that those ideas don't exist yet, does that make it ok to cheat?

[emitsu97]

Absolutely not. The cheating just shows that there's room for improvement. The fact that you CAN cheat shows room for a different kind of improvement. Sometimes ppl's will to play the game far out wieghs the pitfalls of not following the rules. It's almost drug-like. You get a little bit and you like it. The more you play the more you enjoy. Until the game mechanics hault you for 2 months in order to farm to proceed to the next great thing. Most ppl don't enjoy farming. When you do farm enough of an item for AH you then have to wait for it to sell. Why can't there be something like "Cid's Gallery of Goofs and Gadgets"? It could have operating hours just like a Guild to minimize over usage or abuse. It could have such minigames as a FFXI version of air hockey where you can play for fun or against a friend with a friendly wager option, capped of course. Or how about "Taru Tag", where it's like trying to catch a pig in a pen. The Taru runs like mad in random directions and you need to try to catch him/her. Each catch yields gil and a higher difficulty, faster moving Taru that drops more gil. Or "Chocobo Chasers", the infamous Chocobo racing everyone would like to see. Friendly wager friendly. "Hungry Hungry Galka", eat as many galka sausage as you can in a set amount of time. Button sequence specific for taking bites. More sausage, more gil. Friendly wager friendly as well. There's no limit to making gil gethering more fun. I just wish they would do it.