dear people who buy gil with real money

[csBahamut]

I agree whole heartedly with you Faust, but not everyone cares about accomplisment like we do. Some just don't care about the 'means to and 'end' and only want the 'end' as soon as possible.

hey buddy, try farming for a million gil... by the time you get it, FFXI will already be over.

Already have, and my highest job is only level 53 and my highest crafting is cooking at 39. I get about 4 hours a day to play. I only have half a million on me now, which I farmed in about 2 weeks, but if I include what I spent, I've probably made close to 2 million gil already.

My brother has also made that much, and with no crafting and even less play time. He got 2 snipers in like 2 weeks at level 40. I don't know about you guys, but I'd just call the gil buyers lazy( as in lack of effort, not time).

Also, don't forget to go bad and read that link. You'll realize what kind of trouble you'll get into by buying gil.

[LawDawg]

i never said I buy gil, cause I dont... im a PLD, i really dont have gil problems until the 70s ... anyways, that said, my point is, everyone who says "Oh farming is so fun! I farm for all my equipment unlike you evil gil-buyers. You should really try farming for all your equipment, it is really rewarding" is really someone who is low level and whose equipment costs barely reach the 500k mark. Anyone high enough level realizes in order to farm/earn money for high level equipment takes a serious time commitment. It could take anywhere from 100-200 hours of just pure farming to get that. (and trust me... its not fun) Once YOU only have 10 hours a week to play, youll realize spending 10-20 weeks just to get ONE piece of equipment is not worth it. (I mean you could seriously level 1-65 in that time....) By then, youll either quit the game, move on to a new job, or buy gil.

[LawDawg]

um ok? That comment wasnt for you... stupid. I don't CARE if you made a million gil! good job ! heres your pat on the back! The point is this. If you are a level 30 whatever, and think you are hot shit for being able to farm your own equipment... well, im sorry to say, try farming a million gil at level 30... itll take you a lot of time... and if you only have 10 hours a week... well then you might as well quit the game.

[s_inverse]

"Oh farming is so fun! I farm for all my equipment unlike you evil gil-buyers. You should really try farming for all your equipment, it is really rewarding"

for some ppl farming is fun, for some it's not. nevertheless, it's part of the game play. do you just skip right through all the parts of gameplay that you don't like and straight kill the final boss to see the CGI ending in any other games? buying gil is taking the easy way out, not to metion it's against the TOS (don't know times this had been mentioned)

[LawDawg]

um... no one is arguing the legality of gil-buying... everyone knows that its against the TOS... so really, I don't why you continue to mention it. The real discussion is, IF it wasn't against the TOS, is gil-buying ok? And i've said time and time again, from an economic standpoint, yes. From a moral standpoint, well its up to you...

And what about all those people who got high level help with their AFs, genkai items (instead of PTing with people who needed it as well). Or all those people who got powerleveled ??? hm?? (not that its the same as gil-buying, but its an example of "skipping" through something using a method not "intended" by SE)

[Faust]

First of all... why would I need a million gil? Ok, yeah, sure it'd be nice. But at my level, I don't NEED it. Sure, I'll need it at higher levels, but by that time, I'll be farming things that'll drop even more gil and items that are worth more. Like csBahamut stated, he was able to do it. When I get to that point of needing that amount of money, I'll be farming for it.

Working for it.

And enjoying the satisfaction that I didn't have to cheat to get it.

So as far as arguing about how hard it is for a low level to get a million gil... Well, DUH! They're low level. Of course it's tough. If the game was so damn easy, why bother playing?

[LawDawg]

theres a big difference between TOUGH and TIME CONSUMING. If making gil was "tough" then time wouldnt be an issue, it would be more of a skill issue. But since making gil in FF is actually really easy, but TIME CONSUMING, its "unfair" (in a sense) to those who dont have the TIME to make money.

And 1 million gil to a level 30 is basically the same as the millions of gil that a very high level player needs. I believe some classes need upwards of 20-30 million to get their full equipment. And gil making does not get any less time-consuming as you gain levels. There are more avenues to make gil, but if you arent a THF or high level crafter, or on 24/7 to join HNM/god hunts, youll have to resort to boring 'ol farming... and some classes can not farm for more than 30-40k an hour. (it may take 100-1000 hours to get enough gil)

[Faust]

"It takes too much time... I don't have enough time..."

So why would someone play a game when they don't have time to play?

It's whining "I don't have this, I don't have that, I don't have the time to get it."

I still have to laugh because how does that justify cheating?

You want something, work for it and quit being lazy. Something that can be applied to a lot of things and not just the game.

[LawDawg]

Originally posted by Faust
"It takes too much time... I don't have enough time..."

So why would someone play a game when they don't have time to play?

It's whining "I don't have this, I don't have that, I don't have the time to get it."

I still have to laugh because how does that justify cheating?

You want something, work for it and quit being lazy. Something that can be applied to a lot of things and not just the game.

someone already said this ... you should read what the responses are....

anyways, tell me how you would feel in this situation (ignoring the TOS for now, please):

Player A is struggling to make the 5 million he needs for his scropion harness. He only has about 10-15 hours a week to play and has been spending the last 2 months farming, and has only mustered up 3 million gil. His friend, player B, has 50-60 hours a week to play, and feeling sorry for his friend he gives 2 million to his friend as a gift.

Is this wrong?

Now lets say Player A is very grateful to Player B, and takes Player B out to dinner IRL

Is this wrong?

Now lets say Player A is very grateful to Player B, and gives him a penny

Is this wrong?

What if he gave him 200 dollars?

[csBahamut]

theres a big difference between TOUGH and TIME CONSUMING. If making gil was "tough" then time wouldnt be an issue, it would be more of a skill issue. But since making gil in FF is actually really easy, but TIME CONSUMING, its "unfair" (in a sense) to those who dont have the TIME to make money.

No, it's NOT time consuming if you would bother to find the NON-time consuming methods, like say, gardening, or crafing?

This game was designed for people with little time to play. It requires a LOT of time spent in game to get anywhere. That's the point. If you don't like it, play a different game.

Player A is struggling to make the 5 million he needs for his scropion harness. He only has about 10-15 hours a week to play and has been spending the last 2 months farming, and has only mustered up 3 million gil. His friend, player B, has 50-60 hours a week to play, and feeling sorry for his friend he gives 2 million to his friend as a gift.

Is this wrong?

Now lets say Player A is very grateful to Player B, and takes Player B out to dinner IRL

Is this wrong?

Now lets say Player A is very grateful to Player B, and gives him a penny

Is this wrong?

What if he gave him 200 dollars?

I have nothing against friend's helping eachother. It's the means by which people obtain gil. Now, if this guy was given more than just money for a Scorpion harness, well, he'll pay for it sooner or later(i.e. get bored and quit, get a bad reputation for lack of skill, etc.). Networking is part of the game. Making friends to help you or to play with is part of the game. Paying a third party, who you don't know nor do you know how they did it, for gil was not designed for this game. I just hope SE acts soon. I'm reading all kinds of posts about the Kiss people showing up in FFX(and other possible gil farmers for selling). This is SE's game, not mine, not yours, not the gil sellers. SE decides what is OK, and what is not, NOT you the player.

[Faust]

I've read the responses, and I know what I've said has been said before. Everything here's been said before to one extent or another.

As to your scenerio, I don't think it truly applies to the argument. My opinion of course.

The way I see it is this person's working his butt off to farm gil. A friend offered to help and gives the rest of the gil the first person needs. If the person accepts then whatever. If he feels he should offer something in return, then whatever. What I'm seeing, are two good friends, who (I'm assuming the person who gave the gift also worked hard for their gil, if the person who gave the gift bought the gil, then he's a cheater and the first person shouldn't accept it) are doing their best to help each other out and if they go out to dinner IRL and exchange a penny in gratitude, screw, make a family, whatever, then that's between friends. Personally, knowing how hard it is to make that amount, and if I made already 3mil, I'd make the rest up myself as opposed to accepting the hard earned gil of a good friend.

I don't see that scenerio in the same light as this whole buying gil for money. There is no actual "relationship" other than seller and buyer. The buyer is buying gil because he wants to cheat. Plain and simple. And the buyer is making money off of a company in a morally (the way I see it) wrongful manner.

I know people will strike similarities between the two scenerios and try to justify one thing because of the other. Remember, it's TWO DIFFERENT scenerios. Again, my opinion.

edited for spelling although it's getting late in the work day for me so stuff's gonna slip by...

[LawDawg]

true, gardening doesnt take time in the sense that you can be multi-tasking while you garden. Crafting, on the other hand, is very time consuming, and usually can't make more money than just farming.

So whats the difference between buying gil from a friend, or buying gil from a 3rd PT? Theres really no difference.

Finally, please please please dont tell me that the ability to make gil makes you a good player. I know plenty of players who worked hard for their gil, have awesome equipment, and suck. I know plenty of players who have normal equipment, probably bought some gil, and are very highly skilled. Why? cause those gil buyers had more time to PT and hone their skills, while the others spent time doing something that takes no skill, aka FARMING.

[Faust]

Originally posted by LawDawg

So whats the difference between buying gil from a friend, or buying gil from a 3rd PT? Theres really no difference.

Wait, now you changed the scenerio again.

At first, you stated the scenerio was one person offered to give the other person gil in an effort to help his friend, who felt they should take 'em out to dinner in appreciation for the help (or give a penny, $200 or whatever).

Now you stated that he's buying gil from a friend.

I see a big difference.

If he's buying gil from a buddy. Lazy cheater.

Edit-again, spelling. I need a Mt. Dew...

[LawDawg]

wow, getting a little technical are we? =) So its ok to give someone money in appreciation for a gift of gil, but its wrong to BUY gil.... interesting...

[Faust]

Getting technical?

I simply stated that there's a difference.

If you want to get technical, that could be done I suppose. Didn't think it was really needed though. I see the difference plain as day.