dear people who buy gil with real money

[Gally]

If you want to talk about having enough time...I work, eat, sleep, and play FFXI. My social life pretty much IS FFXI. I gave up doing other things to have enough time to play FFXI. I don't have time to play a lot of other games I would like to play. But you know what, that's just tough. I have to live with it.

A lot of people would argue that Dedicating your life to a video game is a lot more pathetic then spending time in the real world with real people doing real things, and spending some cash on gil.

Here is a fun question:

Say you post a fancy item in the AH for 2mil gil. It purchased by PlayerA whou you know for a fact buys gil online. Seeing as this practice is imoral would you promptly discard that gil?

[fyrewyre]

Originally posted by Onte
And once again, my morals and the morals of everyone else who doesn't agree with this poster are scandalous and wrong. Thanks a ton, man!

Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they have moral *issues* or a lack of morals or bad morals. It means you're a judgemental f*ck for assuming your own morals are superior.

Im not even going to flame you for this one, i just have two questions:

Wouldn't you agree that someone who breaks rules on purpose and disreguards the agreements made inorder to play this game, lack morals?

How would you feel if someone sold your property (which clearly stated: Prohibited) without permission?

[Braanu]

YOU DO NOT HAVE THE REQUIRED AMOUNT OF TIME TO PLAY THIS GAME THAT IS NEEDED. STOP PLAYING THE GAME NOW.

You should really re-read my post again. NOT A SINGLE ONE of you pro-gil buyers responded to a SINGLE THING in my post. Why is that? Cause its all fact and you cant argue against it in a logical manner.

Re-read it...and either stop buying gil or stop playing the game, because IT IS NOT FOR YOU. YOU DO NOT HAVE THE TIME. And, you have NO RIGHT to sell something that does not belong to you. You are clearly told by Square-Enix that this DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU. YOU ARE A THIEF.

Previous Post:

"If you have to buy your virtual money to play the game then you do not have enough time to play the game like it should be played. You pro-gilbuyers admit to that.

If you do not have enough time to play the game, then the game is not for you. Period. End of story. End of excuses and reasoning for you buying gil. The game is not for you. Move on to a game that is for you. Dont ruin the game for thousands of others who have the time needed to play the game and play it as it was intended to be played, and according to the rules/EULA.

When you buy gil, the personal value of that gil is less to you than the personal value of the same amount of gil to the person who actually made it correctly in-game.

Because you value that gil less and got it so easily and quickly, AND MAINLY because you know if you dont have enough of it you can obtain more instantly and quickly and easily.

Furthermore, because you know you can get as much of it as you need...as fast as you need....then you're going to bid higher on an item over 100k than someone who's spent hours and days farming will bid for the same said item.

What does this do? Anyone with half a lick of sense knows. It will drive the price of that item up, and make it unobtainable to all but those very rich crafters or gil buyers.

Flip side. What does this do to farming locations? Well...someone has to be farming this gil somehow, somewhere. Next time you go to farm your gil honestly (or you always farm honestly)....say, Beaudeax or Upper Delkfutts Tower, or Castle Ostroza....these places will be camped out by the people who sell gil. When you are leveling Bard or Beastmaster and want Monster Signa you probably will have to buy it from a gil seller because you cant camp it for the 100 people there camping it to sell gil online. These places are ALREADY camped out by these people. These people are AFRAID of their real-life income. These people GRIEF real players all the time who "steal their camps" and cause them to make less gil per day. They employ very very mean methods to run you out of these areas.

Ya....buying gil has NO EFFECT on anyone. Ya right. I've given you many examples of how it very much DOES effect quite a few people.

Lastly....a lot of people seem to think this gil is made in a fashion that is going along with the game, ie farming or NM camping....and that makes it right to buy the gil because it wasnt "gil duped...introducing currency into a market that wouldnt already have it". However, by buying gil online you are in FACT buying gil that wouldnt have been made otherwise. The whole purpose of these companies is to sell virtual money for real world money. How do you think they get this virtual money? They either employ people to play to earn it and in turn sell it for them, or they buy it off people who have farmed it honestly. Now....IF there were NO gil selling available/allowed/possible.....do you think for ONE MINUTE that gil would have existed? Why would joe-schmo farm for 30 days straight in Upper Delkfutt's Tower if he already has 10,000,000 gil on him and cant make real-world profit out of it? He wouldnt be there, and the gil wouldnt exist. The real world money you are paying for the virtual money creates a market for that virtual money, and in essence CREATES that virtual money. Just as bad as gil duping...and has the same effect.

Buying gil is bad bad bad for many many many reasons. Dont justify it. Just makes you look like a moron."

[LawDawg]

Originally posted by Abadd
i don't see what the big deal is....yeah it takes a while to get gil if you do it the "legit" way.... but to me that is enjoyable, be it farming, fishing, crafting, etc... if people want to deny themselves that part of the game, good for them. more fish for me

gain about 40 levels, and then come back and say farming is fun.

[LawDawg]

Braanu, I don't want to flame you, but the only one who looks like a moron is YOU.

You should really think through your argument before posting it. Your argument that gil-buys, will drive up prices, is unproven. Why would someone, who worked hard to make REAL LIFE money, want to pay extra for an item? You can't judge someone's "personal value" of gil just because one person farmed it and one person bought it. Maybe for YOU, farming, etc your own gil is rewarding, but for people who buy gil, the REAL LIFE money they use to buy the gil is probably more "valuable" to them. And I have yet to see the prices of any expensive items raise to an obsence amount. If anything, the prices are DROPPING! (why? Cause gil buyers can now afford an item, thus increasing demand, which leads to an increase in supply. When demand decreases, and supply remains the same, the price decreases... simple economics...)

Your second argument is that, because of gil-buying, there are people who farm/camp 24/7, thus affecting the normal player. Tell me, what is the difference of me camping 24/7 for my own gil, or paying someone to camp 24/7 for me? There is none. In both cases, there will be someone camping. What would you say if I told you those people camping NMs/farming 24/7 were actually LEGIT players? To your knowledge they could, in fact, be legit players!! But thats not the point. THe point is, you think gil-sellers add more money to the economy. This is true, however, anyone farming for money will add money to the economy. If no one wanted to buy gil, then gil-sellers wouldn't exist. Since they do exist, that means that there is a demand for gil. They are merely putting gil into the economy that would be there ANYWAYS (why? because gil-buyers would end up farming for the gil on there own instead of paying someone to do it for them... simple concept).

[edit] you guys should really read the other thread about the DRG/WHM pair camping delfukts tower... a lot of "heated" discussion there. That said, I have never bought gil, but I would happily sell my gil. And I don't think anyone is saying that it is legal, we all know it isn't, but we are trying to justify it on a "moral" scale... just because something is against the rules/law doesnt make it immoral....

[Poncho]

YOU DO NOT HAVE THE REQUIRED AMOUNT OF TIME TO PLAY THIS GAME THAT IS NEEDED. STOP PLAYING THE GAME NOW.


So if I don't have 18 free hours a day, I need to quit playing? Tell you what: You pay for my Cable Internet, my copy of FFXI, my monthly fees, and maybe, just maybe, I will consider your advice.

[DarkenedShadow]

/sigh... please ignore wat ever was posted here =P my friend thinks its fun to post on other pplz acct.

[emitsu97]

I like the use of words such as "logic" in the same post as the word "moron" It really helps to make the content of the thread more colorful.

How come a topic can't be discussed without bias or name calling and rude remarks?

How come almost every post is written as if by the authority on the issue?

How does one discuss on a discussion forum when posters post "end-of-story" posts?

How come the only discussion of this topic is focused on the value of gil versus RL money and not the value of time or the value of enjoyable gameplay vs. RL money?

How come some people feel playing FFXI is worth $xx.xx/month while others think it's not worth it?

How come some people feel one character is more than enough to pay for and others have 10 mules and don't feel they're paying all that much?

How come farming gil is hard but botting is easy?

How come some people have 24/7 to play while others only have 1-2 hours a week?

[Onte]

Im not even going to flame you for this one, i just have two questions:

Wouldn't you agree that someone who breaks rules on purpose and disreguards the agreements made inorder to play this game, lack morals?

How would you feel if someone sold your property (which clearly stated: Prohibited) without permission?

We're talking about a video game, Cleetus, not reality. We're not talking about raising kids and eating grapes at the grocery store. I don't concern myself with the morals of the people I play a video game with because I choose play this video game for purposes of enjoyment, not to remind myself of what lies outside my apartment door. I'm terribly sorry you find someone's morals concerning a video game an important thing - in fact, a factor in determining their character!

Who, exactly, are you to judge my moral character? Especially my moral character in a video game ?

That answers your first question.

To your second question: I'd hire an attorney. Which is something SE may or may not do to solve this "problem".

What you aren't taking into account is that the "morally-questionable" people selling cash and items are keeping gamers playing this game who otherwise would have quit a lot sooner. Why would SE solve this "problem" when it's actually helping them anyway?

[solmeir]

It seems that one of the big reasons that people want to buy GIL is that they have a busy RL, or one that does not allow them to spend a great deal of time in this game.
One of the common arguements to this seems to be- well dont play it then.
So if that is the case, is SE not then losing out big time?

To those who want to lay out their posts as if they are the world experts on the matter- please think youre arguements through, lest you end up looking like more of an idiot.

Its a shame that there was not a poll on this as part of the thread- the results of that would be very interesting........

[Braanu]

"It seems that one of the big reasons that people want to buy GIL is that they have a busy RL, or one that does not allow them to spend a great deal of time in this game."

Then this game is not for them, is it?

[LawDawg]

come on braanu, respond to my post....

[Braanu]

Hey Lawdawg,

How long did IGE.com tell you it would take for you to get your new Director of Marketing business cards?

[Omena]

Well, that "not enough time" argument is pretty bad as well. It's not about how much time you have. It's about how you use the time you have. Nobody forces you to level at all. You could use that little time you have on farming instead.

[csBahamut]

You people REALLY need to do some reading before trying the same argument over and over that has already been proven wrong here: http://www.themis-group.com/whitepapers.phtml - "The Pitfalls of Virtual Property".

Do some reading, THEN try to validate your claims against what is said there. I don't think anyone is bothering to read eachother's posts, or just aren't paying attention to what is being said. Buying gil is against the EULA, no if's, and's, or but's about it. And if you want to see the effects that buying gil can have, again, read the stuff in that link above. There's no more to say. All you pro-gil buyers keep saying the same thing over and over again. You don't win an argument by repeating the same thing over and over. You need to PROVE your side. And "I can do what I want" does not work. Try doing something illegal and make that claim in court. Guess what, I won't save you.