dear people who buy gil with real money

[csBahamut]

Prove to us that gil-selling is poorly effecting anyone.

You've offered nothing but speculation, which is all anyone can offer, and your own breed of uplifting, motivational lectures.

What can we do BUT speculate? Nothing has gotten bad enough to provide definte evidence in FFXI. We only have occurances of the effects of gil buying(and item buying) on other multiplayer games. Just look at what happened in Diablo II or Lineage II. Those are extreme cases of course.

I should probably point this out to you because you probably didn't read it when I menioned it before. If SE was selling the gil, I wouldn't care. It wouldn't be against their ToS then. But since it's third parties selling the gil, and it's against the ToS, I'm against gil buying. I'd still dislike gil buying, because I don't have that much money to throw around, but I wouldn't tell players that it's wrong to buy gil.

Yes, I am young. I'm a 22 year old aeronautical engineer. Taking care of issues before they become a problem is my business. Take TWA Flight 800 for example. The chances of what happened were less than 0.1%, but it still happened. That's why developing problems need to be dealt with before something major happens. If we didn't, the airline industry wouldn't be as safe as it is, and you'd be hearing about a LOT more plane crashes.

As for your "Americans need to learn" line, I hope you're from this soil so I don't have to spank you, yet again, for assuming things and making an "ass" out of "u" and "me".

Hahahaha, you don't realize HOW many times I hear that. Yet, if engineers didn't ASSume things, we wouldn't have the level of technology or safety that we do today. A lot of ASSuming goes into developing anything. That statement I made is just a broad generalization based on my experiences with people. Whether or not it's correct, I don't know. I'm not a sociologist nor psychiatrist, so pursuing whether or not that's statement is fully true does not intrest me. Oh yeah, you used a generalization as well. There's nothing 'sunny' about being in the 20's for everyone.

Instead of offering obscure statements, how about providing a real discussion?

[HDS]

stfu... I don't think any of you guys read any previous posts before posting your own...

Read before you post, and stop using examples that makes no sense.

[HDS]

I just thought I should come bak and give a final comment.

WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU GUYS TRIPPING ABOUT BUYING GIL? IF SOMEONE WERE TO GIVE YOU FREE GIL WOULD YOU TAKE IT? IF YES THEN STFU ABOUT PPL BUYING GIL SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU ARE JEALOUS.

P.s. I am not a gil buyer, just pissed at people's jealousy.

[csBahamut]

stfu... I don't think any of you guys read any previous posts before posting your own...

Read before you post, and stop using examples that makes no sense.

I'm sorry, but I'm afraid you just made the mistake you intended to prevent with that statement. I've been posting since the begining of this thread, as well as Onte I believe. This is a discussion about gil buying, try to post about that instead.

I'm also sorry if you can't understand intelligent examples. Not everybody is an english professor. Perhaps I should find a high school english teacher to help you comprehend what's been said in this thread?

[Edit]

WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU GUYS TRIPPING ABOUT BUYING GIL? IF SOMEONE WERE TO GIVE YOU FREE GIL WOULD YOU TAKE IT? IF YES THEN STFU ABOUT PPL BUYING GIL SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU ARE JEALOUS.

Heh, you did it again. You didn't bother reading the entire thread. It's not that simple I'm afraid. If some one gave you free money that they had gotten off someone they killed, would you accept it? Would you accept it knowing that you could go to jail as well?

If I was simply jealous, I'd be typing in all caps and using profanity, just like you.

[LawDawg]

we've already proved (well not proved, but explained in great detail) why gil-selling DOES NOT affect the economy.

[ibroyles]

Yes, csBahamut, it would probably be best to ignore this troll, who just decided to come on here and read the last page and post some flames. If you happened to read the other side of the argument, you would know what the anti-gil buyers have to say about the issue. Anyways, it sounds like the gil-buyers are the ones that are jealous of people who have more time to play, so why don't you "stfu."

[Faust]

Originally posted by HDS
I just thought I should come bak and give a final comment.

WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU GUYS TRIPPING ABOUT BUYING GIL? IF SOMEONE WERE TO GIVE YOU FREE GIL WOULD YOU TAKE IT? IF YES THEN STFU ABOUT PPL BUYING GIL SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU ARE JEALOUS.

P.s. I am not a gil buyer, just pissed at people's jealousy.

Who said jealousy had even a small part in the argument? I have more than enough money to buy gil if I chose to do so. And if I felt like it, sure, I'll play it on a PC and start using bots. Why don't I? Because it's against TOS and it's cheating.

Why am I "tripping" about the whole thing? Because I've seen other MMORPGs when thing's like this get out of hand. I happen to like this game and care about it enough to voice my opinion on the subject instead of idly sitting by and watching it go down the tube. That and I pay good money for the game just like anyone else and would like to see it continue the way it was meant to be played.

[Faust]

Originally posted by LawDawg
we've already proved (well not proved, but explained in great detail) why gil-selling DOES NOT affect the economy.

I don't quite recall seeing the "proof."

If I missed it, I apologize. If you can, please requote/repost.

[LawDawg]

read page 8 of this thread, i posted something there. It's not really a proof, per say, but its a much stronger argument (i feel... obviously =P). Oh yeah, I don't think L2 and D2 got terrible DIRECTLY because of gil-selling. gil-selling led to more people wanting to get gil-fast, and thus, more exploits. The question is, would this exploits have been discovered if gil-selling wasn't around? maybe, maybe not...

[csBahamut]

we've already proved (well not proved, but explained in great detail) why gil-selling DOES NOT affect the economy.

Not really. It hasn't affected it yet, that's all. It can affect the economy if it becomes bad enough, like it did in Diablo II.

Let's look at this economically.

FFXI economy is based on a simple supply and demand, right? Now, demand for rare and expensive items is high. Many people want it. Because so many want it so bad, they are willing to pay a higher price. If people have more gil to spend, they will pay a higher price. Say the seller of an item knows this and puts his item up for 100 times more than it's worth. They know that someone will buy it because people can just buy more gil to afford the item. This leave all the players who don't buy gil extremely poor and ill-equiped(assuming they can't get the drop themselves, or have friends that can craft the item for them). And what happens when just about every has their uber-leet gear? Prices won't drop. The sellers know that they can still sell high.

Of course, it's also possible that not many players will purchase gil, and the economy won't feel more than a little bump in prices. This is of course less likely, unless SE can control the problem better than they do now.

[Edit]

Oh yeah, I don't think L2 and D2 got terrible DIRECTLY because of gil-selling. gil-selling led to more people wanting to get gil-fast, and thus, more exploits. The question is, would this exploits have been discovered if gil-selling wasn't around? maybe, maybe not...

Direct or indirect, it was still one of the root causes. It only takes one root to keep a plant alive and growing.

Why would someone, who worked hard to make REAL LIFE money, want to pay extra for an item?

For the same reason that they bought the gil in the first place. To obtain what they couldn't. Not everyone knows how to do things in moderation. Addiction is pretty powerful. If they have a strong enough want for something, they'll do whatever it takes to get what they want. Catch a drug addict while he's out of drugs and in need of a 'fix' bad, and I bet he'll pay more that the usual price. One bad apple can ruin the whole bunch. Most laws are created because of this principle. It only takes one airplane crash to ruin an airline's name.

The economy can stay stable, or it can be rocked hard. It's the fact that it *could* get real bad. Do you want to take the chance that the game will be ruined? Probably doesn't matter to some people, but it does to me. It's the same thing with wearing seatbelts. People assume that they won't get in an accident on that short trip to-from home. Yet, the majority of accidents hapen within less than 1 mile from home.

[Faust]

Originally posted by LawDawg
read page 8 of this thread, i posted something there. It's not really a proof, per say, but its a much stronger argument (i feel... obviously =P). Oh yeah, I don't think L2 and D2 got terrible DIRECTLY because of gil-selling. gil-selling led to more people wanting to get gil-fast, and thus, more exploits. The question is, would this exploits have been discovered if gil-selling wasn't around? maybe, maybe not...

Well, it is an argument, but no proof of the matter. The reason why I called you on the proof is because I knew there wouldn't be any. I challenge anyone to find proof that it WON'T affect the economy. I don't see anyone meeting that challange really.

As far as proof that it will, admittedly, that's not something that's easy to come up with either because only the future can tell with a game as young as FFXI is. What we CAN do is look at examples of the effects on other games. THERE, we have proof that something like gil selling CAN mess up the economy/game.

And that wasn't a very good argument concerning L2 and D2. Gil selling may not have been the only factor, but it was a factor nonetheless.

[HDS]

Heh, you did it again. You didn't bother reading the entire thread. It's not that simple I'm afraid. If some one gave you free money that they had gotten off someone they killed, would you accept it? Would you accept it knowing that you could go to jail as well?

If I was simply jealous, I'd be typing in all caps and using profanity, just like you.

-------------

wtf... csBahamut, so you are the one that keeps posting irelevant and and examples that do not make sense.

Just tell me, what does killing a person has to do with gil buyin? :confused:

The gil sellers are not killing players and jacking their gil to sell to you, you cannot make a direct analogy on that... You think you write great posts, but trust me, you do not. They do not make sense, and I am sure an english will give you an F for going off topic and making false analogies. God bless your retarded off-topic-ness.

[HDS]

Not really. It hasn't affected it yet, that's all. It can affect the economy if it becomes bad enough, like it did in Diablo II.

Let's look at this economically.

FFXI economy is based on a simple supply and demand, right? Now, demand for rare and expensive items is high. Many people want it. Because so many want it so bad, they are willing to pay a higher price. If people have more gil to spend, they will pay a higher price. Say the seller of an item knows this and puts his item up for 100 times more than it's worth. They know that someone will buy it because people can just buy more gil to afford the item. This leave all the players who don't buy gil extremely poor and ill-equiped(assuming they can't get the drop themselves, or have friends that can craft the item for them). And what happens when just about every has their uber-leet gear? Prices won't drop. The sellers know that they can still sell high.

------

Please, stop using supply and demand, everyone knows about it as it is the most elementary concept of economics.

The only reason D2 was ruined was not due to people buying stuff online, but the fact that the items being sold were "duped".
That is why the economy and the game is fucked up.

For FFXI, it is a different story. The gils are obtained by legit players, gil sellers and nonsellers alike. The gils didn't just appear out of nowhere, thus inflating the economy.

This will be my last warning to you regarding posting irrelevent information and examples that do not make sense.

[ibroyles]

Originally posted by HDS

The only reason D2 was ruined was not due to people buying stuff online, but the fact that the items being sold were "duped".
That is why the economy and the game is fucked up.

For FFXI, it is a different story. The gils are obtained by legit players, gil sellers and nonsellers alike. The gils didn't just appear out of nowhere, thus inflating the economy.

This will be my last warning to you regarding posting irrelevent information and examples that do not make sense.

Oh this is your last warning huh? What are you going to do, argue over the internet and cuss somebody out? Just so you know, you're posting crap that doesn't make sense either. D2 wasn't ruined only by duping, it was ruined by CHEATING IN GENERAL. I liked D2 as a game, but when I logged on and saw so many people cheating, that's what ruined it to me. This includes dupes/hacks/exploits/buying items. I don't know if you've perused the forums a little bit, but there seem to be a LOT of people in the gil selling business now, just look through this whole thread and also the thread Stanislav posted just a couple of threads below this one. Any form of massive cheating in a game like this is going to upset the hardcore fans, period. Just because it doesn't affect you, doesn't mean it doesn't affect a lot of other people. Also, if you really "don't care" about any of this, then why are you defending it? Why does it matter to you either way if people get banned for it or not?

The thing is, most of these people buying items/gil in game will just move onto the next MMORPG when it comes out. So they ruin the game to have their fun, then move on to ruin the next game, all the while trying to logically tell themselves that they aren't cheating, when they are. Well here's my shoutout to all the gilbuyers playing FFXI, if you're going to play the game "the way you want to play it," then so am I, and I'm going to report anybody that ever divulges that information to me. How's that for playing the game how you like?

[solmeir]

there seem to be solid points on both sides, and this thread is enlightening reading. Lets hope it continues.

There is a lot of effort to compare this game with others, and other ruined economies as a result of various forms of cheating.
But just like those on the
"im for buying gil"
or
"using bots" people having no proof that it will not destroy the economy, those on the
"i hate cheaters damn you" side also need to realise that their own arguements are flawed also.
Use of the /EX option, NPC quests/buying/selling are just some of the options that SE has to use if it sees things getting out of control.

And we would be naive to think that they arent monitoring this, because this game represents an absolutely huge income stream for them.

And please people, keep your posts flame free, as this is a good thread that does not deserve to be closed because people lose their cool.