dear people who buy gil with real money

[ibroyles]

This is very interesting to me, as I have always been against gil buying/selling. It is pretty interesting to see some people's reasons for buying gil. The main reason I've seen people justify buying gil for is because they didn't have enough time in game to farm for their equips. I'm guessing these are the same type of people that use Gameshark if they keep losing to their friends on other games, because that's in effect what they are doing with FFXI. "I can't keep up with my friends who have more time to play and farm so I will just get this Gil/Items without any actual work IN GAME". To be honest, I have friends that play this game too. One of my friends is a LV42 PLD. As you can see by my profile, I am WAAAY behind him, and we started playing at the same time. This is mainly due to the fact that THFs have a little bit more expensive equips earlier in the game (Leaping Boots, Emperor's Hairpin, Nomad's Mantle +1: all of which are <=LV24 items and add up to ~800k). While he was able to level, I was farming for these equips (still in the process of getting Nomad's Mantle + 1). Now, I could have just bought some gil and kept up with him, but what's the fun in that? He will eventually hit a point that PLD costs more than me(especially when I get to be a higher level thief), and I will catch up. I think its funny the people that justify buying gil because they don't have enough time to play, or keep up with their friends. If my friends ever bought gil online to keep up with me, I would probably lose respect for them. Keep that in mind you people who say that you are keeping up with friends, because you friend most likely actually worked in game for what he got.

Now, for the people who say "LOL but ibroyles I worked IRL to get money for the game." OK...ummm, you're forgetting this is a game. If you don't like the restrictions put on it, or you don't like how long it takes to farm, why try to manipulate the game to have fun? Why not play a different game for LESS money and have more fun? The point of this game is to have fun, if you don't have fun in all aspects of it why even play it? To anybody that says at higher levels you won't have fun farming anymore, I say, wanna bet? This is why I play the game, this is why I like RPGs. If I wanted another game I could cheat my way through I would go buy GTA and use a GameShark on it. I don't know why some people seem to lose their ethics on playing a game when it is put on the internet. To anybody that's ever bought gil: Have you ever played through a game with cheat codes and continued to REALLY enjoy the game? If the answer is no, then why would you warp your ethics while playing an online game? I think people buying gil online are just making up for the fact that they might be sub - par players, and they just justify it by saying that it is completely logical. But to each his own opinion, and this is just mine.

[csBahamut]

Crafting, on the other hand, is very time consuming, and usually can't make more money than just farming.

Wrong. You just have to spend a little time finding out HOW to make good money. To actually craft something, only takes a few minuites.

Nicely written ibroyles! If people can't get gil, then tough. Don't like something? Then don't play. There are single player games that you can cheat in where you won't affect other players as much.

Here's a Scenario for you:
You: You beat GTA without any cheats in 1 week.
Your Friend: Beats the game in 6 hours using cheats.

What do you think of your friend? Do you think h actually 'beat the game'? Do you think he cheated? Do you think his skill is as good as yours? Do you respect and trust him as a game player? Try the other shoe. You may just understand something.

[solmeir]

Ibroyles- if you want to say that you dont agree with it, just say so.

Based on your arguement, how is buying a game guide any differant?
Is a game guide therefore not cheating?

Your comment about high lvl farming has no basis- as you have said you are not high lvl yet. Therefore how can you make a comment like that with any basis in fact?

So because you have decided that it is cheating, are other methods in the game that could be considered cheating by some people now not allowed either?
People who spam macro's to claim NM's? I dont like that, and some people consider it cheating.
Train farming?

Can you say that you enjoy every element in the game? Every single one?
Of course not.

For the record- I dont agree with gil selling.

[LawDawg]

um... if you think crafting takes no time, you are an idiot. You first have to BUILD a craft to a high level in order to make decent gil (ie, faster than you normally would farming). To raise your craft to this high level takes time and money. Then when you have reached that level, you won't make money until you make back the money you lost!! If i, today, needed 10 million gil (and thats all I really needed for the rest of the game), would I choose to level a craft from level 0? Or farm? Both cases will take a hell of a lot of time, the first choice is probably better, but that doesn't mean it doesn't take a lot of time.

[ibroyles]

Originally posted by solmeir
Ibroyles- if you want to say that you dont agree with it, just say so.

Based on your arguement, how is buying a game guide any differant?
Is a game guide therefore not cheating?

Your comment about high lvl farming has no basis- as you have said you are not high lvl yet. Therefore how can you make a comment like that with any basis in fact?

So because you have decided that it is cheating, are other methods in the game that could be considered cheating by some people now not allowed either?
People who spam macro's to claim NM's? I dont like that, and some people consider it cheating.
Train farming?

Can you say that you enjoy every element in the game? Every single one?
Of course not.

For the record- I dont agree with gil selling.

Ok, for the record, I am saying I don't agree with it. Why can't I make my points? I am just supposed to say "I don't agree with it" and leave it at that? As for buying a game guide, good luck finding a game guide for FFXI that is anything close to cheating. Game guides don't clue you in on how to make badass gil or get items with real life money, so it doesn't really concern me. As for your comment on farming, I included that because of other comments about people saying that they didn't have the 1mil they needed for equips. I am LV30 and I have probably farmed at least 1mil all added up. My ability to farm gil has grown constantly with my level in game, because I have been constantly working to improve it, something gil buyers couldn't even comprehend because they don't even have base 1 covered. If it does change when I get higher level and for some reason I stop liking how much money I will have to farm, I will probably quit the game. However, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

As for the other things you labeled as cheating, I am defining cheating as those things which are prohibited by the EULA. None of which you listed is prohibited by it, therefore it is a weak argument. Also, of course I don't enjoy "every single element of the game," but then again I'm not the one using third party(companies, software, etc) to try to make it more enjoyable. I play the game for what it was made to be. This all comes down to respect for developers. I am right now studying computer science in school and I aspire to make video games when I get out. The developers wished this game to be played within certain bounds, and I respect their artistic vision. This is because if I ever make a game, I wouldn't want people beating around the bush trying to find ways to make my game easier by using illegal software/means to do it. Anybody who doesn't respect that shouldn't be playing this game, period.

[csBahamut]

um... if you think crafting takes no time, you are an idiot. You first have to BUILD a craft to a high level in order to make decent gil (ie, faster than you normally would farming). To raise your craft to this high level takes time and money. Then when you have reached that level, you won't make money until you make back the money you lost!! If i, today, needed 10 million gil (and thats all I really needed for the rest of the game), would I choose to level a craft from level 0? Or farm? Both cases will take a hell of a lot of time, the first choice is probably better, but that doesn't mean it doesn't take a lot of time.

Not if you know what you're doing. I pay for my losses leveling up the skill by selling lower level crafted items at the same time. And it doesn't take super high skill to bring in any cash. Everyone thinks you need super-high crafting in goldsmithing or smithing to make money. That's not true. A Haubergeon cost like 900K in supplies to make and sells to like 1 mil(on some servers). People that know nothing about crafting think that crafter is making millions. Not really. It takes a while for that to sell too. You HAVE to look into your server's economy, and craft what is selling well. I could easy make 100K in a week with my lvl 39 cooking skill alone. Of course, I won't tell anyone how. If everyone knew what I did, then no one could make money that way. Here's a hint: craft consumable items in moderate quantities. Too much floods the market(which a lot of people don't realize). How hard is it to spend a few minuites in each AH to see what to craft? Not hard at all. Oh yeah, can't forget that awsome bazaar system^^! It really works, but only IF you know how. Just don't expect anyone to tell you how to make REAL good gil. If people did that, no one would have money. It's all about knowlage. Learn something, don't throw money at it.

[littlesushi]

Now, for the people who say "LOL but ibroyles I worked IRL to get money for the game." OK...ummm, you're forgetting this is a game. If you don't like the restrictions put on it, or you don't like how long it takes to farm, why try to manipulate the game to have fun? Why not play a different game for LESS money and have more fun? The point of this game is to have fun, if you don't have fun in all aspects of it why even play it? To anybody that says at higher levels you won't have fun farming anymore, I say, wanna bet? This is why I play the game, this is why I like RPGs. If I wanted another game I could cheat my way through I would go buy GTA and use a GameShark on it. I don't know why some people seem to lose their ethics on playing a game when it is put on the internet. To anybody that's ever bought gil: Have you ever played through a game with cheat codes and continued to REALLY enjoy the game? If the answer is no, then why would you warp your ethics while playing an online game? I think people buying gil online are just making up for the fact that they might be sub - par players, and they just justify it by saying that it is completely logical. But to each his own opinion, and this is just mine.

Dude, you have to STOP comparing this to other FF's or any OTHER RPG. There is NO "OMFGZZZ, I BOUGHT SOMETHING FOR 100k AND IT SUCKZ< LET ME JUST PULL OUT THE MEMORY CARD". You can't do that here. You buy something for that amount of money, and you find out it sucks, you're shit out of luck. Period.

I see one guy talking about how he works 8 hours a day, and still has all the time in the wolrd to farm for 395839058 gil a day, that's great for you, but there's still people that have LESS time then that. I have at best, 3 hrs to play a day. Yea, I might have one or two days off a week to play as much as I want, but remember, FFXI =/= Real life, I have freinds that I like to hang out with, i'm not wasting all my time playing this game.

And this goes out to the "If you're not gonna play the game right, don't play it at all" group. Dude, you pay for my cable connection, and my 12.95 a month, and the 180$ I dropped on it to get my PS2 to play it, and i'll play it however you want. Who the f*ck are you to tell me how to NOT play I game I bought? Please.

And best, "OMFGZZZ, YOU BROKE TO TOS" I'm sure EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU BOUGHT FRAPS AND ADOBE PREMIER. And EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU IS RUNNING A LEGAL VERSION OF WINDOWS XP? Am I right? HELL NO! So please, you guys are the WORST people to be takling about breaking the TOS.

[Faust]

It's funny to see how far people will go to try and justify something that's simply cheating.

Because you paid money for a game doesn't make the fact that you cheat any better. Same goes for complaining about not having time to play the game, or that it takes too long to make gil. It's stupid whining. The game is just that, it's a game. You're given goals, and the ability to reach those goals WITHIN the game. That's the PURPOSE of the game. Challenge your ability to get to those goals within specific boundries/scenerios. Going outside and breaking TOS to reach those goals, personally, labels a person as nothing more than a lazy cheater.

True though, I can't tell people how to play the game. I can only voice my opinion on what I feel is right and wrong and play to the best of my ability and follow my morals.

I do the best that I can with the opportuities given to me IN GAME to get me where I'm going. Proud to say I don't have to resort to buying gil, or using bots or, like I keep saying, cheating.

Do I think I'm better than a lvl 75 who purchased the gil to get them their equips and lvls or uses a bot to fish while they go to work, go out and play with friends? Not necessarily, my highest job's only lvl 30. I still have a lot to learn before hitting lvl 75.

Do I have any respect for the guy? Not for his playing ability. Sure he got to that lvl, but he had to cheat to get there.

[emitsu97]

I agree with Kailea-D on page 2 of this thread.


--------------------------Close This-------------------------------

It's the equivalent of beating each other with foam bats and calling each other names.

[Faust]

And I happen to agree with Raiyu, page 2, 2 posts after Kailea-D.

[Onte]

And this goes out to the "If you're not gonna play the game right, don't play it at all" group. Dude, you pay for my cable connection, and my 12.95 a month, and the 180$ I dropped on it to get my PS2 to play it, and i'll play it however you want. Who the f*ck are you to tell me how to NOT play I game I bought? Please.

^^Thank you

[csBahamut]

I see one guy talking about how he works 8 hours a day, and still has all the time in the wolrd to farm for 395839058 gil a day, that's great for you, but there's still people that have LESS time then that. I have at best, 3 hrs to play a day. Yea, I might have one or two days off a week to play as much as I want, but remember, FFXI =/= Real life, I have freinds that I like to hang out with, i'm not wasting all my time playing this game.

Ever hear the quote, "You can't have your cake and eat it too."? Same thing applies here. You have to prioritize.

And this goes out to the "If you're not gonna play the game right, don't play it at all" group. Dude, you pay for my cable connection, and my 12.95 a month, and the 180$ I dropped on it to get my PS2 to play it, and i'll play it however you want. Who the f*ck are you to tell me how to NOT play I game I bought? Please.

I have no right to tell you how to play, but the law does^^. You pay to play within the limits set by the game, just like you get benifits from the U.S. Government for following it's rules. You CAN'T do whatever you want without paying the consequences. If you could do whatever you want, everything would be chaos, AND everyone else could do whatever they what. You are limited to what you are allowed to do(witout concequence). Follow the rules, and there's no problem.

And best, "OMFGZZZ, YOU BROKE TO TOS" I'm sure EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU BOUGHT FRAPS AND ADOBE PREMIER. And EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU IS RUNNING A LEGAL VERSION OF WINDOWS XP? Am I right? HELL NO! So please, you guys are the WORST people to be takling about breaking the TOS.

The logic here is quite flawed. That's like saying to a Judge, "Everyone speeds, so I'm allowed to get away with stealing."

If SE sold the gil, I wouldn't care. It'd would be part of the game then.

It's the equivalent of beating each other with foam bats and calling each other names.

Nice analogy there, but only one foam bat is the "Bat of Truth."

[emitsu97]

*foam bat the the head
"lazy"
*foam bat to the kidney
"cheater"
*foam bat to the groin
"lazy cheater"

"But....."

"No but's....no soup for you":mad:

*removes foam ~ foamless bat to the groin.
:dead:

Many a good point made.

[LawDawg]

buying gil does not make you a bad player... I know tons of people who farm their own gil, and they suck. I mean, I haven't PTed with a GOOD all NA PT (Good as in over 4k xp/hr) in many months. (but thats a topic for another thread). The majority of the high level gil buyers do not have a problem with skill. Why waste your time in something that really has no influence on how you PT, or how you fight HNM? Farming, fishing, crafting, etc all take minimal skill compared to being a good PT member... And yes crafting does take time. I made it to level 63 woodworking in a week without losing too much money, but theres still not much I can make for profit. Sure I could craft 14 items, and put them on auction, but those 14 items would net me MAYBE 2k profit. 30k a day from crafting is a good boost, but it would take me 100 days to make the 3 million I needed.... I dont think most of us will be playing in 100 days. And on top of that, in order to maximize my profit, I would have to craft on a certain day/moon phase... and having such a limited schedule, it is not always possible to craft on an optimal day...

[emitsu97]

Black or White
Good or Evil
Dark or Light
Choice or Life
Beef or Chicken

"Bat of Truth" spin round and round.

What ppl don't understand is there's more factors to most situations then realized.

Most recently:

Stem Cell or no Stem Cell

It's all the same battle.

No correct or incorrect...it's all individual beliefs and circumstance.