Grrreetings Meow!

[Murphie]

Re: Grrreetings Meow!

The bottom line is that all servers are essentially the same. The only difference is the individuals on them. The members of the DiV LS are saying "you're welcome on Kujata", but saying that doesn't mean that they aren't welcome somewhere else.

It's ridiculous to complain that people are...I don't even know what. Monopolizing the newbies? When other servers and other linkshells aren't making any efforts to encourage new players to join them. I haven't seen Itazura offer anyone else a spot in his LS (I'm pretty sure it's closed to new members anyway). So why does it matter to him? Aksannyi has helped make new players on Hades feel welcome in her shell there. No one got on her case for that, so I'm not sure why it's suddenly a big deal that an LS is telling people that they are welcome to join.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Grrreetings Meow!

I hesitated to make a full response earlier, since Muphie chimed in, and he tends to make it personal fast, quickly brining in his favorite label for me, "passive-aggressive". Yet, perhaps the faults I'm seeing isn't as obvious as I had believed, or it could be that I'm just plain wrong.

So, with apology to the OP, I'll hijack the thread further to see how others react to my concerns. (I'll just add Murphie to my ignore list to mitigate my tendency to respond to him.)

* * *

Initially, I supported the idea of a DiV Linkshell, as it this game is fairly complicated, and having a helpful, knowledgeable of people to put newbies with would be great for the new players. (I suggested the name, BTW.)

Once it's up and running, however, I noticed that it seems like more than half of the new players who post on the board are recruited to Kujata, whereas before it mostly posting of "Every World is about the same, so don't fret", with a few random recruitments to random Worlds added.

That's what I mean by "not neutral"; there is now an imbalance--a de facto bias. That all it means.

Short term wise, this isn't really a problem; a few more people for Kajuta and a few less for others for a month or two won't do much. But, long term viability of each World depends on replacing the people leaving with people joining, and a steadily trickle of difference in new players joining will add up over time.

As a community site for all FFXI players on all Worlds, should Dreams in Vana'diel be in a position to encourage (if only by permissiveness) such a bias? For any World?


Then, there's the issue of association with the DiV site. While I don't believe DiV does the place discredit (in fact, the opposite is true), I am uneasy with how difficult it may be for people who browse the site from separating the DiV LS from the DiV site.

After all, it one looks at Sev's intro for the LS, the word "unofficial" is not in there--it's quite easy to mistake Sev's LS as the official LS of the site. An irony, really, given the recent rift between Sev and the moderator team (member(s)).

* * *

To sum it up, the problems are all structural:
1. Presence of the LS on the DiV site creates a de facto bias toward Kujata, as things stand. This is not something a community site for all players of all Worlds should be doing.
2. The exact nature and degree of association between DiV the community site and DiV the Linkshell isn't clearly spelled out.

I've no ill will toward the DiV LS; I see it doing a lot of good. It's just that its presence creates some problems in my eyes. In very personal terms, "Why should I, as an Ifrit player, be contributing to a site which has a small but clear bias for some other World?"

[Murphie]

Re: Grrreetings Meow!

It seems to me that you're creating a problem where there isn't one. There is no community bias for Kujata or for the DiV LS, except for the one that you (and only you) are perceiving. Other servers and linkshells are well within their rights to encourage new members to join them on their own servers. It's not the fault of the DiV LS that no one else is.

And I have to laugh at the unintentional irony and hilarity of your publicly announcing your ignoring of me. That's pretty much the definition of passive-aggresive.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Grrreetings Meow!

hmm, the site itself does encourage a bias towards any world. it is a few site members who are actively recruiting. this i believe is the key point.

FFXIO is not taking any stand on servers. If you had a LS on ifrit and wished to welcome new players in, be our guest. Make your presence known instead of holding it against someone else for doing the same thing.

[LilithAngel]

Re: Grrreetings Meow!

Furthermore, has anyone else stopped to think that a (civil) discourse like this isn't really something we wanna put on a new player's welcome thread?

As a leader of DiV LS, I still welcome Kitt, and hope that this hasn't scared him/her off. We're a crazy bunch, as you may have noted, but we're all for supporting new players like yourself, regardless of whatever world said new players choose.

[Murphie]

Re: Grrreetings Meow!

Furthermore, has anyone else stopped to think that a (civil) discourse like this isn't really something we wanna put on a new player's welcome thread?

Really good point, Lilith.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Grrreetings Meow!

hmm, the site itself does encourage a bias towards any world. it is a few site members who are actively recruiting. this i believe is the key point.

FFXIO is not taking any stand on servers.

I've never stated it was an official bias; after all it's is the "unofficial" DiV site LS. However, with the level of recruiting, and a special sub-forum, which no other LS has, the DiV LS has drawing power no other LS has. That's the de facto part of the "de facto bias" in which World the new players end up on.

And, just to be crystal clear, by "bias" I mean something like "an inclination of temperament" or "systemic error introduced". (That's "error" as in deviation from optimal course kind of error, not something like "judgment error".).

If you had a LS on ifrit and wished to welcome new players in, be our guest. Make your presence known instead of holding it against someone else for doing the same thing.

It seems difficult to explain this, but I'm not against DiV or any LS recruiting per se. My concern is fundamentally about the responsibility of a community site to actively prevent bias for or against any World; there should be neither official participation or permission. That, and better ("easier to see") clarification of the relationship between DiV and DiV.

I do not doubt that you believe there has been no bias, but I'm hoping to change your (as well other moderators') opinion on this.

* * *

The last thing I want is more "DiV" LS's on other Worlds; I do not wish to see heated competition over recruits between Worlds on this site.

* * *

Furthermore, has anyone else stopped to think that a (civil) discourse like this isn't really something we wanna put on a new player's welcome thread?

Yes--I did. However, the issues came up on this thread, and I thought it was best not to leave it at "boo-hoo" or whatever phrase used. (And, it was an introduction thread, from what I've read.)

To OP: I apologize again, and would be more than happy to see the moderators chop off the detrail and give the issues raised a proper thread of its own.

[Murphie]

Re: Grrreetings Meow!

EDIT: NVM, I'm backing away from the crazy now.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Grrreetings Meow!

Can a mod clean this soap-box bollocks up please?

[Balfree]

Re: Grrreetings Meow!

FFXIO is still neutral. I don't see how someone inviting a newcomer to a determined server turns a whole community into a bias towards anything.

There is nothing to clean. People are bringing this out of proportion.

[Mhurron]

Re: Grrreetings Meow!

There is no damn bias. I'm not going to turn around and suggest people go to Titan, I'm not there I don't have a ls that will welcome people.

I am however on Kujata and I do have a ls that will welcome people. So the invitation was extended.

If you're not going offer an alternative then why not shut up instead of letting new players just flounder or be ignored when they ask for a ls.

which no other LS has

Open your eyes

[Icemage]

Re: Grrreetings Meow!

For there to be any bias, it would indicate that one server is better than another. As we all know, all the servers are pretty much the same. Maybe a shade higher percentage of certain nationalities and geographics on some servers than others, but the population is pretty evenly distributed.

I'm not seeing any favoritism here (and note from my profile that I play on Midgardsormr, not Kujata).

If you'd like to kick this ball around further, kindly move the discussion to somewhere other than New User Introductions.

Topic closed.


Icemage
FFXIOnline Forum Super Moderator