BLM as a first

[Aksannyi]

Re: BLM as a first

Would SMN/BLM really be that gimp?...

While it might be fun for soloing purposes I guess, the playerbase in general will consider you to be gimp if you sub BLM, regardless of your reasoning. A lot of players in this game are not at all forgiving of people and their subjob/gear choices, and it's a sad fact but you might as well just get used to it sooner rather than later.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: BLM as a first

Would SMN/BLM really be that gimp?...
Having it be sort of tough to play is fine with me...
I just don't want to be cast out of or not-even-invited to PTs because my Elemental Magic isn't nearly as high as it could be with BLM as a main.
(Also:Do I have the right understanding of this concept?)

On another note...
I've been using Bio a little bit on EP...
And, it's been doing very little damage..especially with the MP cost...
Yet I was with another BLM in a PT the other day...Who continually casted Bio...
This just strikes me as odd...

Smn/blm if you solo. If you want to party then you are going to need to have /whm sub. You can be stubborn and seek for party with /blm sub but you'll get very few party invites so you'll eventually get frustrated. People in this game have it set in their minds what sub jobs are the ones you use and if you try to "buck the system" you'll find it hard.

As for Bio, it is damage over time and not the initial damage. While bio is on a mob it is losing hp just like poison or dia does. Bio also lowers the attack power of the mob where Dia lowers the mobs defense. Both do a poison like damage plus both of these traits. Bio is tied to your dark magic skill and dia is tied to your light magic skill.

[Feenicks]

Re: BLM as a first

and dia is tied to your light magic skill.

Just to correct this, Dia is classed as Enfeebling Magic.

[Feba]

Re: BLM as a first

It seems much smarter to wait for a WHM than recruit a BLM/WHM and expect them to full heal.

Does it really seem smarter to wait for an indefinite amount of time (especially considering that parties tend to disband if they're stuck in a rut trying to get members for more than an hour and a half or so) for a better healer than getting one that works NOW and actually earn EXP? In theory, or if FFXI had more people up for invites, sure, but in practice no.

[Armando]

Re: BLM as a first

To be less blunt, yes, Tink, SMN/BLM would be gimp. Terribly gimped. That gimped. Whether it be intentionally or by some horrible design flaw (most likely the latter, but this isn't the thread for that), SMN doesn't benefit directly from almost any sub that isn't /WHM. If you sub /BLM, you won't be able to do anything with your sub, because no one wants Bio on a mob that could've been Dia'd* and I guarantee you that you'll be doing far less damage than the MP you spent casting BLM spells. BLMs themselves already get resisted a lot, there's no way you're going to get anything less than a 90% resist with halved skill.

Not trying to be an ass here, but seriously, drop the idea; there's absolutely no merit to the combination.
______________________________
*Bio lowers the enemy's Attack, which only benefits the tank to a limited extenct. Bio overwrites Dia of the same level. Dia lowers the mob's Defense, which benefits everyone that hits the monster physically, speeding up kills by a whole lot more than casting Bio will reduce downtime.

[Ellipses]

Re: BLM as a first

At the risk of being called ignorant(read:a n00b)...
I think I'd rather play more of supportist than a heal/main-heal...
Especially if my main is BLM...
Like Yellow said...I didn't get into BLM because I thought I'd be healing...
Because, I would have picked WHM...
But, I have no problem giving support as a /RDM...
Of course, I might change my mind...

There's nothing stopping you from refusing to main heal. You can state that you won't in your search comments, you can look at the party list once you're in and make sure they're not expecting you to, etc. Some parties won't mind and won't expect you to do so. Some will, and you'll just have to leave those parties. It's not "You have to main heal, period." It's "Expect to be expected to main heal if you don't want to turn down parties."

Would SMN/BLM really be that gimp?...
Having it be sort of tough to play is fine with me...
I just don't want to be cast out of or not-even-invited to PTs because my Elemental Magic isn't nearly as high as it could be with BLM as a main.
(Also:Do I have the right understanding of this concept?)

Yes. It really is that gimp. What Armando said. It's not that, oh, your black magic is kind of weak, but it's better than no black magic at all. It's that your black magic sucks gigantic donkey nuts and does the party almost no practical good.

On another note...
I've been using Bio a little bit on EP...
And, it's been doing very little damage..especially with the MP cost...
Yet I was with another BLM in a PT the other day...Who continually casted Bio...
This just strikes me as odd...

Bio is DoT, like Poison and Dia. That initial damage that you see isn't the only damage it does. It also lowers the mob's attack. And it's one of two spells (Drain being the other) that you can use as a low-level BLM to raise your Dark magic skill, so a lot of BLMs will cast it regardless of whether they should be (In most parties, they shouldn't be, because Dia is better).

[fallenintoshadows]

Re: BLM as a first

Bio is DoT, like Poison and Dia. That initial damage that you see isn't the only damage it does. It also lowers the mob's attack. And it's one of two spells (Drain being the other) that you can use as a low-level BLM to raise your Dark magic skill, so a lot of BLMs will cast it regardless of whether they should be (In most parties, they shouldn't be, because Dia is better).

I may be wrong in saying this, I know one overwrites the other.. I think so anyway but I don't know if it works both ways.

Could a BLM cast Bio first at the chance of a skill up then Dia, hopefully to overwrite it and for the good of the party on each mob?

I remember trying to skill dark magic on BLM, it was a pain in the ass. I normally asked pts if they minded me using Bio over Dia sometimes.

[Ellipses]

Re: BLM as a first

Bio overwrites Dia. Dia does not overwrite Bio. If you cast Bio, then Dia (before Bio wears off), you are effectively wasting the MP for Dia.

[fallenintoshadows]

Re: BLM as a first

Bio overwrites Dia. Dia does not overwrite Bio. If you cast Bio, then Dia (before Bio wears off), you are effectively wasting the MP for Dia.

Ah boo I thought it might be that. :<

[Armando]

Re: BLM as a first

Dia II can overwrite Bio I, so it's possible to cast Bio for skillups if your RDM or WHM is casting Dia II. If you only have access to Dia I, then no, don't skill up, just use Drain. Drain is a good, MP-efficient nuke anyways, and practically hateless if your HP is full.

[Icemage]

Re: BLM as a first

I'm going to fill in a few holes not answered here, so bear with me.

BLM as a first primary job, in a nutshell:

Level 1-10 is pretty painful and slow. You're restricted to how much MP you have, and at the early stages, recovering takes quite some time.

Level 11-22 is actually not too bad if you know where to go. Hint: Stay away from Valkurm Dunes and Qufim if you can, and instead find other ranged attackers to tackle the Maze of Shakrami and Korroloka Tunnel. Not that Valkurm and Qufim are necessarily bad, but the parties in those zones tend to be two steps forward, one step back, unless you get something silly like a powerleveller helping the party.

Level 22-30 you're more or less stuck group-wise where everyone else is, which is basically the area around Kazham. Luckily, Mandragora aren't particularly strong attackers, and they're weak to almost every black magic spell you can potentially toss at them (five different elemental weaknesses).

In the 30s you'll quite likely spend most of your time out in the deserts of Altepa. Blizzard and Thunder magics will serve you well here, as well the dark magic spells Drain and Aspir. These are the Good Times to be a Black Mage, assuming you survive the angry beetles that will be winging their way toward you after you nail them with a spell.

Things get a little worse after Altepa, as the camps get a little less BLM-friendly (Crawler's Nest, Gustav Tunnel, Garlaige Citadel).

The biggest problem occurs somewhere between level 50 and level 55. Invites basically dry up to nothing, as party dynamics shift dramatically, and players start hitting the Treasures of Aht Urghan zones.

It is possible that you will almost never see a normal XP party more than once per level from level 55 to 75. This causes frustration for some players, while others find the implied need to solo somewhat soothing. Personally, I'm in the former group, which is why my BLM job has been frozen at level 56 for 2 years and stayed there.


Icemage

[Silent Howler]

Re: BLM as a first

At the risk of being called ignorant(read:a n00b)...
I think I'd rather play more of supportist than a heal/main-heal...
Especially if my main is BLM...
Like Yellow said...I didn't get into BLM because I thought I'd be healing...
Because, I would have picked WHM...
But, I have no problem giving support as a /RDM...
Of course, I might change my mind...

IMO, you may want to consider Scholar. One of the key aspects of the job is being able to flip back and forth between being black magic or white magic based. You won't be quite on par with a Black Mage in terms of damage dealing, but it sure is a hell of a lot easier to play healer if the party needs it.

Would SMN/BLM really be that gimp?...
Having it be sort of tough to play is fine with me...
I just don't want to be cast out of or not-even-invited to PTs because my Elemental Magic isn't nearly as high as it could be with BLM as a main.
(Also:Do I have the right understanding of this concept?)

At the early levels, SMN/BLM might be okay. Being a level 4 SMN/BLM, you won't notice a real great difference in comparison to being a level 4 Black Mage. But the higher you get the worse it gets. When casting elemental magic it is possible to get a resist. The lower your skill, the stronger the resist. Casting Stone II for 14 damage is just not worth it. As a Summoner it would be much more cost efficient to use your avatars to deal damage than casting poor elemental magic.

On another note...
I've been using Bio a little bit on EP...
And, it's been doing very little damage..especially with the MP cost...
Yet I was with another BLM in a PT the other day...Who continually casted Bio...
This just strikes me as odd...

The purpose of Bio is not to deal damage like Stone or Water does. It's an enfeebling spell.

Bio deals darkness damage that weakens an enemy's attack and gradually reduces its HP.

Dia deals light damage that weakens an enemy's defense and gradually reduces its HP.

Most parties will want Dia > Bio. The reason for this is because Bio only helps the person being hit (who should be the tank) while Dia reduces the enemy's defense, helping every damage dealing job with killing the enemy faster. In some cases the party will ask for Bio instead; more often when you are fighting against a hard hitting enemy and/or when you have a blood tank like Warrior or Samurai.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: BLM as a first

Well, with Silent Howler's comment about Scholar, everybody else has said everything I could possibly say about any topic brought up here.

However, I still want to say that SMN/SCH should be pure awesomeness for whatever your purposes. You get nukes that don't suck OR all the White Magey stuff people could want (but not both at the same time). Everybody wins.

[Tinks]

Re: BLM as a first

I guess I'll look into what exactly a SCH is, then.
Because I really would like my main to eventually be SMN...
And, I've had fun playing BLM...So, naturally, I thought combining the two might be a good idea.
But, it appears otherwise. lawl

Thanks for all the help, everyone!
It's greatly appreciated.
: D

[Armando]

Re: BLM as a first

However, I still want to say that SMN/SCH should be pure awesomeness for whatever your purposes. You get nukes that don't suck OR all the White Magey stuff people could want (but not both at the same time). Everybody wins.

I wouldn't be so sure. RDMs suck at nuking and they get MAB and Tier III nukes. A 75 SMN/SCH isn't going to get far using Water II and with no MAB to boot. Just throwing away MP that could've gone towards perpetuation or BPs.