Shell help vs. Crab AOE?

[puhfyn]

Does shell reduce DMG from Crab AOE water bubbles?

A very experienced player told me no, which surprised me. He said shell only affects magic resist, and crab AOE bubbles are not magic, so shell does nothing. However, in my own PT play, shell has *seemed* to reduce DMG. Anyone want to settle this?

[Kisshu]

Re: Shell help vs. Crab AOE?

I know bubble shower(think this is the AoE you're thinking of) dmg is based on the crabs current HP%, so at lower HP% it does less dmg than at a high HP%

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Shell help vs. Crab AOE?

I thought only breath (cone AoE) attacks and self-harming AoE (e.g. Mijin Gakure, Bomb Toss) attacks are based on HP? Given that Cursed Sphere is a magical TP move, I'm inclined to believe Bubble Shower is also a magical one, and its damage should be subjected to MAB/MDB modification, and thus Shell should contribute to damage mitigation.

It's the magic resistance (usually elemental resistance, such as from bar-element spells) which affects the resist rate (chances for "damage cut"?), I think, where as Shell and Magic Defense Bonus offer reliable (if small) damage reduction like Defense does for physical damage.

[Armando]

Re: Shell help vs. Crab AOE?

Shell helps against just about everything that's not physical. It should be noted that Shell reduces the damage of some things which MAB and MDB don't affect (like Skillchain damage.)

Like Itazura said, Shell has nothing to do with resist rates. Only the elemental resistance stat affects that.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Shell help vs. Crab AOE?

Shell helps against just about everything that's not physical.

Technically, that's not completely true: spiritual damage isn't able to be resisted by much of anything.

The most well known example (and the only example, to my knowledge) of spiritual damage is the Sword Weaponskill "Spirits Within," but if I recall correctly, isn't the only Mob that uses that Ark Angel EV?

Because spiritual attacks are so rare in the game, Armando's statement is, for all practical purposes, true . . . just don't expect Shell to help against a "Spirits Within" attack.

/nitpicky

[Icemage]

Re: Shell help vs. Crab AOE?

Shell adds Magic Defense, which directly reduces the amount of magical damage taken. This includes most non-physical attacks (including Bubble Shower) as well as spells. Bubble Shower's base damage is dependent on the crab's base HP. It's not just breath/cone/explosion/suicide attacks, though those are the most well known (Silence Gas, Mijin Gakure, Bomb Toss, Self-Destruct, Hypothermic Explosion, Final Sting, etc.).

Spirits Within is a physical attack. It most closely resembles 1000 Needles in function, being a set amount of base damage which is unaffected by Defense rating. However, Physical Damage Resistance (Earth Staff, for example) will reduce the damage from Spirits Within and 1000 Needles, as can the inherent innate damage resistance of some special enemies like Aspidochelone.


Icemage

[csBahamut]

Re: Shell help vs. Crab AOE?

Actually, Spirits within is a magical attack. I have never seen -%physical damage reduce the effect of Spirits Within. For an easy test, just go into Beseiged and check how it get's the major reduction in damage as spells. Another test is when you're zerging something like Dynamis Lord. You'll see that Spirits Within get's hit by the magic damage spam nerf as well. And for the definite proof, just fight Proto-Ultima or Proto-Omega. Both bosses have magic/melee immune/resist phases. Proto-Ultima has Magic and Physical barriers it uses. Proto-Omega is strong to magic or physical based on if it's in 4-leg or 2-leg mode. Spirits Within get's fully resisted (or does 0 dmg, I forget. I avoid using it during magic barrier) during Magic Barrier on Proto-Ultima. Spirits Within does majorly reduced damage to Proto-Omega during 2-leg mode (majorly reduced magic damage).

I'm inclined to think that Spirits Within is light based, like Eyes on Me. I haven't actually tested it myself, but I could swear I've seen myself partially resist Eyes on Me. You'll also notice that EV's Spirits Within isn't a constant drop in damage based on her HP. I've had Spirits do less damage while I was kiting her at the beginning, than she did while nearly dead. The only explanation I have for that is that Spirits Within must be resistable.

As for bubble shower, yes, shell will reduce the damage. Barwater helps too. Both work just like Icemage said.

[Icemage]

Re: Shell help vs. Crab AOE?

Actually, Spirits within is a magical attack. I have never seen -%physical damage reduce the effect of Spirits Within. For an easy test, just go into Beseiged and check how it get's the major reduction in damage as spells. Another test is when you're zerging something like Dynamis Lord. You'll see that Spirits Within get's hit by the magic damage spam nerf as well. And for the definite proof, just fight Proto-Ultima or Proto-Omega. Both bosses have magic/melee immune/resist phases. Proto-Ultima has Magic and Physical barriers it uses. Proto-Omega is strong to magic or physical based on if it's in 4-leg or 2-leg mode. Spirits Within get's fully resisted (or does 0 dmg, I forget. I avoid using it during magic barrier) during Magic Barrier on Proto-Ultima. Spirits Within does majorly reduced damage to Proto-Omega during 2-leg mode (majorly reduced magic damage).

Are you sure about this? I know I've tested Spirits Within (just for kicks) against Aspi/Adamantoise in the past but haven't tested it recently. I'll take your word for it, though now I'm curious enough to go test it again.

I'm inclined to think that Spirits Within is light based, like Eyes on Me. I haven't actually tested it myself, but I could swear I've seen myself partially resist Eyes on Me. You'll also notice that EV's Spirits Within isn't a constant drop in damage based on her HP. I've had Spirits do less damage while I was kiting her at the beginning, than she did while nearly dead. The only explanation I have for that is that Spirits Within must be resistable.

As for bubble shower, yes, shell will reduce the damage. Barwater helps too. Both work just like Icemage said.

EV's Spirits Within is really weird. The damage bounces around, which makes me believe that AA EV's Spirits Within uses a completely different damage formula than what players use and just happens to have the same name (in the same vein that many Blue Magic spells are nerfed when in the hands of players - Pollen for instance).

I've also seen resists against Eyes on Me. They're very rare, but you do take half damage once in a blue moon. I don't know what element it might be for sure, though Light sounds right.


Icemage

[Taskmage]

Re: Shell help vs. Crab AOE?

Based on the fact that Spirits Within always does full damage vs avatars, who have physical damage reduction and strongly resist any spell not of their weak element including light and dark, I think it stands to reason that Spirits Within is a non-elemental magical attack like Chi Blast.

According the the blue magic spell description and Grendal's old notes on farming in Zvahl, Eyes On Me deals dark elemental damage.