Puppetmaster Mods

[Aeni]

Re: Puppetmaster Mods

Looking through the history of the modding channel on 2chan, it seems that most work on the Japanese side started out with schoolgirl/maid dresses and naked morphs.

And it still does to this day. It's basically a degraded extension of original works from anime, manga, video games and other sources of media entertainment in Japan. You're only looking at one website (2chan) and basing your assumptions on that. I've gone through literally hundreds of FFXI fan related sites, blogs and LS communities and have found them all to be similar to one another. There's no distinction in any of the works I've seen. Nothing like Amano's distinctive art style.

The derivative work occasionally does surface, but it seems to revolve around canon FFXI characters. (Nanaa mihgo, as an example) - There's a lot of modding done just to enable people to appear like so-and-so NPC. (Although said person is rarely from outside FFXI) I wasn't thinking about these mods when I wrote the above post, so I guess derivative work is far more widespread than I had thought.

Not occassionally. It's a lot. I've yet to see anything "original" from the community. You won't see a Kinki Kids assemblage in a mod or a "kimono shop" display ever. Not to the extent I'm thinking of right now anyway.

Note though: You're implying the American community is "new" and "inexperienced" to modding. I'd like to say that this isn't always true - There are quite a few people with experience from previous games (half life, the sims) - and I have seen very impressive work from Americans. This has not changed the fact that every other mod is "Cloud/ emocharacter" and my instinctive response is "boring, won't look as good as the original". And I sincerely doubt that people will "move on" - there's nothing to move on to, just a change of preference.

The mods you're talking about is mostly "map" making mods. I've yet to come across any pool of exceptional talent on character modding except for the very rare groups (And those usually end up on commercial expansion sets for the specific games that they're modding for) You almost have to be practiced in the school of the art and only a very handful of "amateur" level players ever get into the big leagues.

To illustrate my point - when I see someone called "Cloud", "Legolas", "Tidus" or "Sephiroth" in FFXI, I know he's American and very probably not Japanese. (Although to be perfectly fair, if I see someone called "Aznable" or "Chobits" - from less mainstream influences, it's probably Japanese). My biggest mistake is that I'm overly judgmental and I associate these players with the makers of the mods (since every single "Legolas" name-variant player I've encountered has been TERRIBLE).

Yet assumptions can be a very wrong and painful thing. You forget that the Japanese have been playing this game for well over a year before it was released to the NA players. By then, most of the names that you'd see otherwise in other MMO titles were already taken. Then you'll also have the Final Fantasy fanatics making sure they're putting their claim or stake into the characters that they've grown infatuated of over the years. I'd like to have a character named Blueberry, but guess what? I have to dip into some obscure Russian folktale just to get a name that wasn't claimed either by a JP player main or mule. And you forget that must Tidus, Cloud, etc. originals were taken by japanese players. Most of the NA ones I've seen are Xxcloud or TidusXxxxx and similar styles. Don't blame the NA players. Blame SE for their server/network scheming practices.

Oh, you also can't assume that non-Japanese are Americans. You like to put Americans for anything non-JP related. Only "non-Americans" seem to do this in their posts.

[disa]

Re: Puppetmaster Mods

For many people, it is the interest in learing to recreate things we recognize that leads to original creativity. There are plenty of people out there who started out drawing because they wanted to be able to draw a favorite character or image. Once they learn the basics of reproducing how others create, a person can then take those theories, ideas, knowledge, etc. to make something unique and new. Unless you are some kind of prodigy, you have to learn the basics from some means.

I don't see the harm in suggesting or wondering about mundane/unoriginal/familiar ideas because I know eventually people can and will use those thoughts as a base to create new ideas and concepts. Not everyone will, but there are people who will.

[Ghostraven]

Re: Puppetmaster Mods

squirtle 4tw!

[Nakate]

Re: Puppetmaster Mods

I know that personally, I'm not very good at coming up with my own ideas, so what I do is primarily requests from others or helping others with problems they are having. However, I like the challenge, and I like finding out how to do new things, so I keep trying new, more difficult things, even though the idea itself is nothing original, and often doesn't even mean that much to me. It's the process that I love.

[locus]

Re: Puppetmaster Mods

edit: I deleted my step by step rebuttal because there was really no point to it - it would only serve to make Aeni annoyed and reply with an even more off-topic post, starting a flamewar.

Can we move back on topic now?

[Deo]

Re: Puppetmaster Mods

When people create something, it always works best to have a blue print.

Going off randomly and making something that people will respect you for would be nice, but the thing is, will they actually use it?

So there's two good reasons for copying off a favorite idea:
1) It exists ~ a plan was already created and all you have to do is mimic.
2) Popularity ~ better to have something people will have a use for rather than spamming out random crap that hardly anyone can use.

It was a very simplistic question: "What would happen?"

No need to go all looney if the first few answers didn't blow your mind away.

If I had full power/skill to do as I pleased, I'd probably make the "Great Gato" training robot in Chrono Trigger, then I'd turn it into Cait Sith, and just for laughs, I'd make it into a Domo-Kun and take pics of it chasing my Mithra around Sarutabaruta.

[locus]

Re: Puppetmaster Mods

For many people, it is the interest in learing to recreate things we recognize that leads to original creativity. There are plenty of people out there who started out drawing because they wanted to be able to draw a favorite character or image. Once they learn the basics of reproducing how others create, a person can then take those theories, ideas, knowledge, etc. to make something unique and new. Unless you are some kind of prodigy, you have to learn the basics from some means.

I don't see the harm in suggesting or wondering about mundane/unoriginal/familiar ideas because I know eventually people can and will use those thoughts as a base to create new ideas and concepts. Not everyone will, but there are people who will.

Quoted for truth. I agree with everything you said, and to be frank, I'd rather see 20 mods of sephiroth than to see no mods at all. Most people do start out by emulation. I do think people should push their limits and try something new and different earlier though - I'm sure that very many modders who excel at creating existing stuff would do GREAT jobs at creating original work.

Please don't assume that I think that derivative mod work is inferior - but as a personal opinion, I sometimes think it has less of a "wow, that's pretty new and interesting!" factor to it.

I know that personally, I'm not very good at coming up with my own ideas, so what I do is primarily requests from others or helping others with problems they are having. However, I like the challenge, and I like finding out how to do new things, so I keep trying new, more difficult things, even though the idea itself is nothing original, and often doesn't even mean that much to me. It's the process that I love.

It sounds to me like you're underestimating yourself. It never hurts to try? But your interest in the learning process itself is admirable. Sometimes it's kind of fun to try to recreate a character as a "test" of your skills and see how well you can pull it off - kind of like fanart. I do it all the time. ^^

>>Deo
I know what you mean. But I don't think of modding as a popularity contest - I'm thinking of it in the same way as xoops - people just display their work for other people to see, because it can be interesting. It's unreasonable to expect/demand that people use your mods. You're not selling a product! (Are you?)

I believe that as long as YOU yourself will use it, that's completely satisfactory. This is also the reason why people don't always post *.dat files.

P.S. I'm not looney. Well maybe I am! ... but I'd like to think I'm just argumentative. This often leads to arguing for arguing's sake. Sorry if I sound vehement about it.

[Deo]

Re: Puppetmaster Mods

I'll be blunt and to the point (wait... that sounds opposite), anyway I think what we'd all like to know is: What does locus consider to be original?

You don't have to answer it, cause you know we'll pick apart every unoriginal thing about it, but it will give us a decent basis on what you are talking about and wether you just don't like the wooden puppet look (I don't either) or you just don't like anything mainstream.

[LostCross]

Re: Puppetmaster Mods

wtf? what put you on a crusade deo? Locus said sorry and even explained why they said what they did.

orginal work vs redoing something old.

I am glad you guys got something useful to do for your time. you win at internet.

[locus]

Re: Puppetmaster Mods

Lostcross, she's just asking a simple polite question.

Deo: Hmm, it's a tough question to pin down, but I'd safely say that anything that you don't have an obvious direct reference for would be considered original. Think about it this way - what makes something fanart? (artwork done in homage to a specific character/personality)

If it's not fanart, it's safe to assume it's original work. Your weapons (You make those, right?) are pretty original, for one. I particularly liked your microphone stand.

Going through the first 3 pages of the dat forum, I'd consider these to be original:
-Triel's recolouring of her body stuff.
-Amadaun's thief outfit
-Hayabusa's Nin mask

I've probably missed others. Sorry if I didn't mention yours here.

Edit: As a long call, I'd even say it's pretty original to make a model wearing clothes out of a catalogue you saw - the catalogue models aren't "developed characters" per se.