CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

[Nakti]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

I read through most of this thread and it didn't seem to specifically apply to my situation, so I thought I'd share my story for others who might be experiencing the problem I had.

I set my chocobo to "take a walk in town" for apparently too many consecutive days. I don't remember how many days I set it at, but after the 2nd day, he started sleeping all the time. I'd get the cutscene saying that he took a walk, but then he'd be asleep with a zero health bar. Then he kept doing "take a walk in town" even though I changed the care plan to something else, because the "take a walk in town" was already active.

Although this thread seemed to ADAMANTLY suggest against selecting "rest" as an option under any circumstances, I didn't feel I had much of a choice. I set it to "rest - 1 day." He rested up for a day and his bar was completely full again. The next day, he was fine... Except for hating me because I hadn't been able to watch over him in several days and being extremely hungry.

I think some (not all, but some) of the people who believe their chocobo may be suffering from this bug might actually just have exhausted their poor bird too much and aren't resting it for fear that they will never wake up.

In a way this is good news.

You're saying that your chocobo was sleeping due to fatigue and you had never (even accidentally or temporarily) set Rest before it fell asleep?

This is probably the circumstance which Rest was intended for because Rest replenished your chocobo's energy. The other cases where the energy stays at 0 even when Rest is tried is where the trouble is and seems to cause a Catch-22.

Your chocobo will forgive you and love you once you've fed it and watched over it a bit. Animals are like that. ^^

[Macht]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

In a way this is good news.
You're saying that your chocobo was sleeping due to fatigue and you had never (even accidentally or temporarily) set Rest before it fell asleep?
This is probably the circumstance which Rest was intended for because Rest replenished your chocobo's energy. The other cases where the energy stays at 0 even when Rest is tried is where the trouble is and seems to cause a Catch-22.
Your chocobo will forgive you and love you once you've fed it and watched over it a bit. Animals are like that. ^^

Problem is the people complaining first you have to be sure they comprehend how the game is doing it.

Even though the game says my current plan is Rest the effect doesn't happen till the next day. As I see it they designed it this way with the intent of allowing you to prepare for that next day which is going to happen, I imagine that the stuff do the current day in preperation for tomorrows plan may improve or harm the next days plan (current plan) depending on the outcome.

Yes, though when the Rest care plan is reaching it's end it always shows current plan as what was next on the list as what's to happen tomorrow. I probably should of mentioned the second time I had my chocobo rest after current plan got set to Rest I had changed the plan, before I had all 4 plans set to Rest (7 Days) I was willing to take the penalty if something did happen.

Nothing happened.

The problem I can see with a good chunk of these accounts is a lacked understanding of the care plans design. I could easily see someone after the 1st day of chocobo resting with a plan of resting 2-3 days go an change it and complain their chocobo slept 2 days instead of 1.

What happened there was:

Day 1 Current Plan: Basic Care --Hatch cutscene--
Day 2 Current Plan: Rest --Basic Care cutscene-- (Still can feed and everything)
Day 3 Current Plan: Rest --Rest cutscene--
-Changed Rest (1 Day) to Take a Walk (3 Days)
Day 4 Current Plan: Take a Walk --Rest cutscene-- (Hasn't woke up yet)
Day 5 Current Plan: Take a Walk --Walk cutscene--

So can see a user looking at this and thinking the chocobo was sleeping 3 days when it was really only 2 days. Now how you wonder how the other cutscene were the chocobo ends up in a longer sleep. Well I can see this happening:

Day 1 Current Plan: Basic Care --Hatch cutscene-- [full] (Walked chocobo till energy was almost gone)
Day 2 Current Plan: Rest --Basic Care cutscene-- [starving] (Fed chocobo to full, then walked chocobo till energy was almost gone)
Day 3 Current Plan: Take a Walk --Rest cutscene-- [starving] Slow energy recovery as hunger penalty, say 10 energy recovered (User is panicing)
Day 4 Current Plan: Take a Walk --Walk cutscene-- [starving] (Not enough energy was recovered so energy hits 0 from care plan and triggers Rest action, 11 energy recovered)
Day 5 Current Plan: Take a Walk --Walk cutscene-- [starving] (Not enough energy was recovered due to slower energy recovery from being hungry, energy 0 again and Rest triggered, 12 energy recovered)
Day 6 Current Plan: Take a Walk --Walk cutscene-- [starving] (Not enough energy was recovered due to slower energy recovery from being hungry, energy 0 again and Rest triggered, 13 energy recovered)
Day 7 Current Plan: Take a Walk --Walk cutscene-- [starving] (Chocobo finally recovered enough energy to stay awake after care plan)

This is how I'm seeing it because everything seems to fit for it. I mean everything by the fact you can still feed chocobo and all on the first day of when they should rest. I believe they give that day so you can feed the chocobo to full and do very light stress work (Walk 1 time for example). So when the Rest phase kicks in the chocobo will still be nicely feed to recover energy efficently.

If you intend to walk the chocobo out and drain it's energy like that then it should sleep for at least 2 days not 1. If you set it to 1 day then you want to make sure when it says [Current Plan: Rest] that he's nicely feed and not worked to hard at all that day.

[meldanae]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

i'll add my choco story in case it helps anyone figure things out. and btw, 2 diff GM's told me 2 diff stories, that this was an intentional part of the game, and that it was a bug.

While choco in egg, watched over every day. Sometimes 2x a day cuz I was eager.
Once hatched, care plan alternated 1 day basic care, 1 day listening to music, 1 day rest, in various orders.
Every day hp bar would start at full, then I would watched over choco once and take it on a short walk once, leaving hp bar at 75%.

Coma occurred after I traded the white hankerchief back in. Sorry I don't remember if I had rest planned for that day, but it's possible, but would have been for 1 day. The day before my choco had been not hungry and not full, and I had decided not to feed it since it wasn't hungry. After 2 days of sleeping choco hp was at 0 and it was starving. Choco wouldn't wake up.

I took rest off my care plan cycle, and left the music and basic care. It kept sleeping. However, I noticed that after the basic care plan date, the hp bar went up a tiny, tiny sliver. I did not watch over choco, cuz that woulda taken hp bar back down. Instead, switched my care plan to sleep, which also increased the hp bar daily (it seemed like it might have been by a bigger sliver than basic care, tho hard to tell).

I finally gave up on my choco after it had been asleep and starving for over a week, and pretty much hated me. However, I did get it's hp bar back up to 1/3 in that time from resting, and remember, the first 4 days or so I did not have it on rest. I think that if my choco had been full at the time it went into a coma, recovery would have been faster, and the choco more salvageable, but that's just a theory. Has anyone had a full chocobo go immediately to starving when in coma, or is that part gradual?

Anyways, if this happens to you, my best advice is what the poster said above: set your care plans to rest. When your hp bar gets high enough that you think it might wake up, set them to Basic Care. good luck.

[Macht]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

I tested my idea and I have to say it seems to be correct. I gave my chocobo a good excersise with a little HP left and didn't feed, so this should ensure that the chocobo would not have the food needed to recover the lost energy before falling asleep.

It happened exactly as I thought, without the food and going to sleep it penalized my chocobo the HP was sapped out and I noticed the content on "About my chocobo" actually changed. When it rested before there use to just be a comment saying the chocobo is resting soundly, this time the comment was different. It specifically stated my chocobo is resting to recover from it's fatigue, obviously due to the work-out and lack of food.

I had my chocobo rest again and like I thought Rest does not recover the entire health bar, it recovers about 2 pixels of it. With this testing I come to see that for the chocobo's the Rest phase must be more for if the chocobo gets REALLY ill, is badly injured, or has gone to sleep on your for no apparent reason.

So yes, people having the commatose chocobo's is their own fault. If they want to wake it then they should change the care plan to rest for another 1-2 days and do not do the "Watch over chocobo" option. This should help the chocobo recover just enough energy to wake, because as I noticed in order for the chocobo to wake it needs about 2 pixels of energy. I finally noticed that daily care plans do take 1-2 pixels of energy.

So yes what is happening is if you excersised the chocobo till energy was almost completly gone then even if you feed chocobo to full, you run a chance of encouring a pentaly on the rest cutscene for the chocobo going to sleep hungry (or it could be a stomach pain penalty from possibly overfeeding, I'm not sure which yet). If that penalty occurs then the chocobo will have to sleep for about 2 days (2 pixels per day). If the chocobo doesn't and you change care plan what happens is the new care plan takes action first and if energy is left over the chocobo wakes.

So if you rest 1 day get the energy pentaly and change care plan this is what is happening. You recover 1-2 pixels of energy, new care plan occurs takes away 1-2 pixels, wake check occurs but no energy so wake fails. You gain current plans bonus and sleep energy recovery. Next day recover 1-2 pixels, care plan occurs takes away 1-2 pixels, wake check occurs but no energy so wake fails.

This keeps happening over and over till eventually the chocobo recovers just enough energy to actually wake up.

Depending what care plan you use the chances of it waking earlier or not will vary, with the testing I've also noticed that each care plan does take different amount out of that health bar too. Playing with children and playing with other chocobo I noticed to draw out about 4 energy. These care plans would ensure your chocobo would stay in a comatose state because energy taken way exceeds energy possibly recovered.

Along with this there are also two other things people should be aware of. Not only energy but affection, if the chocobo's affection is to low then it will not follow care plans just the same as if energy is to low. These both seem key in successful care plans.

[meldanae]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

well, my choco had at least 75% hp if not more when it went to sleep, and a decent affection rate (really likes being around you or something), so not sure why hp plummeted to 0% - maybe cuz of the hankerchief stuff? i agree that overworking your choco would be a sure-fire way to get coma state, but i think it happens in other cases, as well.

nice to hear you are having good results on the resting. am i reading what you said right that putting choco on a 3 day rest would recover more energy than 3 1-day rest plans? in other words, does it expend energy to switch from rest to rest?

[Macht]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

well, my choco had at least 75% hp if not more when it went to sleep, and a decent affection rate (really likes being around you or something), so not sure why hp plummeted to 0% - maybe cuz of the hankerchief stuff? i agree that overworking your choco would be a sure-fire way to get coma state, but i think it happens in other cases, as well.
nice to hear you are having good results on the resting. am i reading what you said right that putting choco on a 3 day rest would recover more energy than 3 1-day rest plans? in other words, does it expend energy to switch from rest to rest?

No as long as it's current plan is rest it doesn't expend energy. Try explaining it this way:

Day 2: Current plan (Rest) [Recovers 1-2 energy] Energy Total: 1
Day 3: Current plan (Rest) [Recovers 1-2 energy] Energy Total: 3
Day 4: Current plan (Rest) [Recovers 1-2 energy] Energy Total: 4
Day 5: Current plan (Walk) -1~2 energy, Wake -2 energy | Energy Total: 1

So by the end of it the chocobo will recover 3-6 energy, but wake will take out 2 energy, then also the new care plan will take energy. So end of it all you get 0-2 energy. If you incure that sudden health bar drop.

Now if you do:

Day 2: Current Plan (Rest) [Recovers 1-2 energy] Energy Total:1-2
Day 3: Current Plan (Walk) {Lose 1-2 energy, Wake fails insufficent energy} [Recovers 1-2 energy] Energy Total: 1
Day 4: Current Plan (Walk) {Lose 1-2 energy, Wake fails insufficent energy} [Recovers 1-2 energy] Energy Total: 1
Day 5: Current Plan (Music) {Loses 1-2 energy, Wake fails insufficent energy} [Recovers 1-2 energy] Energy Total: 2
Day 6: Current Plan (Basic) {Loses 1 energy, Wake fails insufficent energy} [Recovers 1-2 energy] Energy Total: 3
Day 7: Current Plan (Basic) {Loses 1 energy, Wake fails insufficent energy} [Recovers 1-2 energy] Energy Total: 4
Day 8: Current Plan (Basic) {Loses 1 energy, Wake succeeds} Energy Total: 1

So you can end up penalizing yourself with the chocobo sleeping for days and days or forever without waking. It's the waking part only after it goes to sleep that draws additional energy.

Now the big question to figure out is what things you do that would cause the chocobo to loose all it's health bar. The obvious is not feeding well enough after an excersise, whenever I work my chocobo down to having 1-2 pixels left I MUST feed him till he's completly full or the health bar will not recover fully.

The suspected other things that I think could cause this state:

Chocobo becomes seriously ill (not slightly ill)
Chocobo is badly injured
Chocobo gets a stomach ache

In any case if something happens to push chocobo in this sleep state a few days of setting it to actually rest will help it wake up. It is by far the better option then switching to other care plans and hoping it wakes, because yes it's gaining stats but at the same time it's loosing affection so eventually it'll just put you in a worse and worse condition in trying to get tasks accomplished.

[Nakti]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

I tested my idea and I have to say it seems to be correct. I gave my chocobo a good excersise with a little HP left and didn't feed, so this should ensure that the chocobo would not have the food needed to recover the lost energy before falling asleep.

It happened exactly as I thought, without the food and going to sleep it penalized my chocobo the HP was sapped out and I noticed the content on "About my chocobo" actually changed. When it rested before there use to just be a comment saying the chocobo is resting soundly, this time the comment was different. It specifically stated my chocobo is resting to recover from it's fatigue, obviously due to the work-out and lack of food.

What's odd is that at least one other person tested this and the chocobo never fell asleep on its own. The energy bar was restored the next day anyway according to him.

I had my chocobo rest again and like I thought Rest does not recover the entire health bar, it recovers about 2 pixels of it. With this testing I come to see that for the chocobo's the Rest phase must be more for if the chocobo gets REALLY ill, is badly injured, or has gone to sleep on your for no apparent reason.

2 pixels seems really paltry, but I guess that's what SE's chart showed - small arrow up for energy.

So yes, people having the commatose chocobo's is their own fault.

I don't believe this. Even if *some* of the chocobos went to sleep because players didn't understand the Care Plan system, I put the blame mostly on SE. I'm still not 100% convinced that Rest is working properly; too much completely contradictory findings from various sources. SE wants us to find out things for ourselves. Fine. We try that. But then SE hampers us with their own contradictory "information" on the Care Plans! The graphic snapshots of the Care Plan system shows Care Plans 1 - 4, not 0 - 3 as it actually is. The wording is also slightly different from what we actually have. And the drawn diagram certainly didn't clarify how the Care Plans were ordered because it left so many people confused. I know I'm picking on the details of SEs "information", but if they're going to be opaque about how Rest is supposed to work then they need to do more than give half-truth half-lie "information".

If they want to wake it then they should change the care plan to rest for another 1-2 days and do not do the "Watch over chocobo" option. This should help the chocobo recover just enough energy to wake, because as I noticed in order for the chocobo to wake it needs about 2 pixels of energy. I finally noticed that daily care plans do take 1-2 pixels of energy.

Do you happen to have a recommendation for waking up if the energy is at full? All I can think of is first drain the energy, then set to Rest, then set to Basic Care.

So yes what is happening is if you excersised the chocobo till energy was almost completly gone then even if you feed chocobo to full, you run a chance of encouring a pentaly on the rest cutscene for the chocobo going to sleep hungry (or it could be a stomach pain penalty from possibly overfeeding, I'm not sure which yet).

My chocobo seemed to get "slightly ill" after a little overfeeding. I'm a little tough on my chocobo >< I run her till she has almost no energy, but I make sure she's completely full. At first I was using the Basic Care plan mostly, but then I tried out the Music and Walk plans and now she's on Walk. I'll let you know if she falls asleep on me.

Depending what care plan you use the chances of it waking earlier or not will vary, with the testing I've also noticed that each care plan does take different amount out of that health bar too. Playing with children and playing with other chocobo I noticed to draw out about 4 energy. These care plans would ensure your chocobo would stay in a comatose state because energy taken way exceeds energy possibly recovered.

I've noticed the health bar difference, too. The day after Basic Care was the current program, my chocobo's bar is down 1 pixel. The day after Music or Walk, it's down 2 pixels. That's why I tell people to use Basic Care and not bother with Rest when they want to ease up on the chocobo a little.

Not only energy but affection, if the chocobo's affection is to low then it will not follow care plans just the same as if energy is to low. These both seem key in successful care plans.

This is good to point out and unfortunately, probably contributes to the Catch-22 of Rest if a chocobo has been Resting a long time. People are reporting starving, energy-less chocobos that hate them and won't wake up.

So the sum-up for the current "Wake up your Chocobo!" theory is:

Set Plan 0 Rest (2 days)
Set Plan 1 Basic Care (2 days)
Don't even "watch over" it or the energy will be reduced.

Macht, would you say this should help those with sleeping energy-less chocobos?

[Macht]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

This is good to point out and unfortunately, probably contributes to the Catch-22 of Rest if a chocobo has been Resting a long time. People are reporting starving, energy-less chocobos that hate them and won't wake up.
So the sum-up for the current "Wake up your Chocobo!" theory is:
Set Plan 0 Rest (2 days)
Set Plan 1 Basic Care (2 days)
Don't even "watch over" it or the energy will be reduced.
Macht, would you say this should help those with sleeping energy-less chocobos?

Yes, I strongly believe that this will wake them. As long as it's only an energy issue, the next thing to figure out is if affection is affected by waking. If it is then the suspected plan I have is you'll need to "Watch over chocobo". Each time you do this it raises affection weather they are awake or not, proved this with the egg phase and watching 10 times a day. It hatched regarding me as the parent.

So if the chocobo is full energy and not waking I suspect it may be an affection issue, in which case you'll have to watch over the chocobo quite a few times to push that affection up.

The big catch here is if you fall into low affection and no energy. This one would be tough to recover from because you are going to have to watch over the chocobo consuming energy while it's resting trying to recover energy. This one almost seems impossible to fall into unless you seriously have not been taking care of your chocobo one single bit. To wake from this low affection and no energy the best method I can see is Rest 7 Days, by the 5th day should have enough energy to attempt to raise it's affection and by the 7th day should recover close to enough to wake.

[Anson]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

Chocobo attributes will soon increase at a greater rate when using care plans. In addition, several additions and adjustments will be made to direct care, and a measure to wake the chocobo up while sleeping will also be introduced.

THANK GOD! This is sure to put an end to what is perhaps the biggest flaw in the chocobo raising feature. Not a moment too soon either, my chocobo was in one of those damn comas while she was still in her "young chocobo" stage, then she hit her last growth spurt and became a full-grown chocobo... AND SHE WAS STILL SLEEPING! I should have my chocobo whistle right now and be riding her all over Vana'diel by now, but no she had to sleep through friggin' puberty!

[Macht]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

THANK GOD! This is sure to put an end to what is perhaps the biggest flaw in the chocobo raising feature. Not a moment too soon either, my chocobo was in one of those damn comas while she was still in her "young chocobo" stage, then she hit her last growth spurt and became a full-grown chocobo... AND SHE WAS STILL SLEEPING! I should have my chocobo whistle right now and be riding her all over Vana'diel by now, but no she had to sleep through friggin' puberty!

Though the post also confirms that it wasn't 100% bug. That sleep state was intended, likely this change was intended to help avoid the no energy and no affection sleep problem. Really to wake from that one means the chocobo's entire growth stage would be lost just to waking it. In that way makes it easier to get food into chocobo and fix affection if this happens.

Might set it up that if you wake chocobo early it looses some affection, helps with the no energy and no affection part while still making the other two have a purpose.

[Anson]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

Though the post also confirms that it wasn't 100% bug. That sleep state was intended, likely this change was intended to help avoid the no energy and no affection sleep problem. Really to wake from that one means the chocobo's entire growth stage would be lost just to waking it. In that way makes it easier to get food into chocobo and fix affection if this happens.

Might set it up that if you wake chocobo early it looses some affection, helps with the no energy and no affection part while still making the other two have a purpose.

Well yeah, technically it isn't a bug. But it is, however, an issue that the development team did not foresee. They probably did intend for the chocobo to stay sleeping until it completely recovered energy or whatever, but I don't think they intended for it to get to the point where it would stay asleep for days on end as its hunger rises and affection drops while the player just sits in the dark trying various things to get it to wake up. Why do you think the development team would implement a feature that allowed you to wake your chocobo in the first place? They obviously figured that this whole "sleeping problem" was something that needed to be addressed. In other words, don't bother trying to defend the way that the "rest" feature currently works, because this pretty much proves that even the development team finds it inconvenient for players. Is it really that hard to accept the fact that the development team made a slight miscalculation? They're only human, after all.

[Macht]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

Well yeah, technically it isn't a bug. But it is, however, an issue that the development team did not foresee. They probably did intend for the chocobo to stay sleeping until it completely recovered energy or whatever, but I don't think they intended for it to get to the point where it would stay asleep for days on end as its hunger rises and affection drops while the player just sits in the dark trying various things to get it to wake up. Why do you think the development team would implement a feature that allowed you to wake your chocobo in the first place? They obviously figured that this whole "sleeping problem" was something that needed to be addressed. In other words, don't bother trying to defend the way that the "rest" feature currently works, because this pretty much proves that even the development team finds it inconvenient for players. Is it really that hard to accept the fact that the development team made a slight miscalculation? They're only human, after all.

Lol, mearly speculating now that waking them early would have negative effects. So be wise to do when it's a sound decision.

[Taskmage]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

I'm gonna go ahead and desticky this now that the issue's been officially addressed.