CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

[Nazo]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

Saturday morning my chick was full, healthy and loved being with me. Saturday afternoon it was asleep and starving and hasn't woken up since. I'd just let it rest a while previously since it had been sick and had eaten grass to recover. In fact that morning the trainer commented that she had fully recovered.
If this is deliberate by SE then it's a huge disappointment, this isn't a pet raising sim, if they're expecting us to spend every game minute with our chocos for a whole month to get decent results then they can forget it.

[Macht]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

Saturday morning my chick was full, healthy and loved being with me. Saturday afternoon it was asleep and starving and hasn't woken up since. I'd just let it rest a while previously since it had been sick and had eaten grass to recover. In fact that morning the trainer commented that she had fully recovered.
If this is deliberate by SE then it's a huge disappointment, this isn't a pet raising sim, if they're expecting us to spend every game minute with our chocos for a whole month to get decent results then they can forget it.

Chocobo Care
Visiting your chocobo and caring for it directly will create bonds of affection that cannot be replaced by even the most detailed care plan. It is not strictly necessary to provide this level of dedication; however, your loving attention will have a noticeable effect on your chocobo’s development. It is also possible to cure your chocobo of several different status ailments with direct care.

I believe they intended this to be a quasi pet sim. You don't really have to spend a lot of time to get good results, but you do have to spend a decent time. In other notes about it they even stated that the system was going to be a little demanding.

For christ sake man, this is a chocobo you can call out in the field + gets special abilities + can race it. Why the hell should they make it a walk in the park, it should have something of a challenge to it.

[Taskmage]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

Macht, why is it that because you are not experiencing the bug, you refuse to believe that anyone else might be? Not everyone who has set their chocobo to rest has had this happen. Not everyone who has had this happen set their chocobo to rest. My friend who experienced this had a "parent" level of affection days before I did and continued to check her chocobo every day while it was happening, so it has nothing to do with neglect.

What you're saying is like suggesting that because your SUV has been working fine then the ones that caught fire must have had bad drivers. It's obviously a complicated system and you do not have internal knowledge of it, nor do you have any first-hand experience with the issue. Your theories are pure speculation.

I'm not saying the people in the bug camp are necessarily right, but to think you know better what is wrong with the chocobos than the people who are actually taking care of them or the GMs who actually have some ability to dialogue with developers is just absurd.

[Macht]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

Macht, why is it that because you are not experiencing the bug, you refuse to believe that anyone else might be? Not everyone who has set their chocobo to rest has had this happen. Not everyone who has had this happen set their chocobo to rest. My friend who experienced this had a "parent" level of affection days before I did and continued to check her chocobo every day while it was happening, so it has nothing to do with neglect.
What you're saying is like suggesting that because your SUV has been working fine then the ones that caught fire must have had bad drivers. It's obviously a complicated system and you do not have internal knowledge of it, nor do you have any first-hand experience with the issue. Your theories are pure speculation.
I'm not saying the people in the bug camp are necessarily right, but to think you know better what is wrong with the chocobos than the people who are actually taking care of them or the GMs who actually have some ability to dialogue with developers is just absurd.

I refuse to because there is lacking detail. Only this uproar of "Oh my god! My chocobo is sleeping and I didn't tell it too!" or didn't tell it to that long.

There is differences between No problem, User error, and System error. It's a proven fact even stated in the damn networking and programming books of the certifications I take that 80%-90% of the time the problem is User related. Rarely a system issue, also just because the GMs have a more direct communication with the development group doesn't necissarily mean that they do communicate well.

The last 2 companies I worked in one of them had no clue who to talk to for system issues, the other would just write them down build up a huge list and IF they remembered would give the list to an IT/Developer also considering if they didn't lose that list.

Which is why I will not trust a GMs response, it's got to be the developers stating it for me to believe. Perfect examples I can provide is:

El Paso Jury District 16 (If I remember the district right): users called up with a problem saying a system was bad because no one could login. Actual problem after some questioning the damn users forgot their passwords, we drove a freaking 16 miles and wasted 1hr. of our time to find out that they forgot their password something fixable in 5 min. if they had originally said that they forgot the passwords when they were questioned about the problem when they had called in.

Another I can give, Insurance Company, people spamming stating that their email is broken because it won't send their email. The slightly more computer savvy people were saying IT ruined the mail server, that wasn't accurate. The people having trouble was only rare and was because they attempted a mail transfer that was larger then 20 MB in size, IT had an enforced 20MB limit which they notified the users of. Not their fault if the users can't read.

Unless a developers states it I won't really believe, just to much of past experiences stating that the problem may be a user fault and they aren't doing something or didn't read something that would of notified of this detail to them. Not to mention ones claiming that their chocobo has this problem also had them wake up, to much of this smells of user fault and less of system. If at most the system might be missing a message it probably should be telling the user, or it may of and the user ignored or couldn't comprehend.

If they ignored then not much development can do about that, they are just victums to the systems design that they could of avoided. If message they could not comprehend or no message then a little fix might be in order there.

The problem I have with it though is at one point this exploded out as being something big and a few days after chocobo's were waking up. Feels just way to much like a "Chicken Little" syndrome or the "Little boy who cried wolf". I'll believe when a developer states there is an error to that effect.

[Mog]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

I refuse to because there is lacking detail. Only this uproar of "Oh my god! My chocobo is sleeping and I didn't tell it too!" or didn't tell it to that long.

There is differences between No problem, User error, and System error. It's a proven fact even stated in the damn networking and programming books of the certifications I take that 80%-90% of the time the problem is User related. Rarely a system issue, also just because the GMs have a more direct communication with the development group doesn't necissarily mean that they do communicate well.

The last 2 companies I worked in one of them had no clue who to talk to for system issues, the other would just write them down build up a huge list and IF they remembered would give the list to an IT/Developer also considering if they didn't lose that list.

Which is why I will not trust a GMs response, it's got to be the developers stating it for me to believe. Perfect examples I can provide is:

El Paso Jury District 16 (If I remember the district right): users called up with a problem saying a system was bad because no one could login. Actual problem after some questioning the damn users forgot their passwords, we drove a freaking 16 miles and wasted 1hr. of our time to find out that they forgot their password something fixable in 5 min. if they had originally said that they forgot the passwords when they were questioned about the problem when they had called in.

Another I can give, Insurance Company, people spamming stating that their email is broken because it won't send their email. The slightly more computer savvy people were saying IT ruined the mail server, that wasn't accurate. The people having trouble was only rare and was because they attempted a mail transfer that was larger then 20 MB in size, IT had an enforced 20MB limit which they notified the users of. Not their fault if the users can't read.

Unless a developers states it I won't really believe, just to much of past experiences stating that the problem may be a user fault and they aren't doing something or didn't read something that would of notified of this detail to them. Not to mention ones claiming that their chocobo has this problem also had them wake up, to much of this smells of user fault and less of system. If at most the system might be missing a message it probably should be telling the user, or it may of and the user ignored or couldn't comprehend.

If they ignored then not much development can do about that, they are just victums to the systems design that they could of avoided. If message they could not comprehend or no message then a little fix might be in order there.

The problem I have with it though is at one point this exploded out as being something big and a few days after chocobo's were waking up. Feels just way to much like a "Chicken Little" syndrome or the "Little boy who cried wolf". I'll believe when a developer states there is an error to that effect.

ok

[DakAttack]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

People do tend to complain about what they don't understand, and I have the claim system in mind while writing this.

Though some of this does seem to be a little strange if it's working as intended. How many people have actually recovered from this bug, or has their chickabo died in its sleep?

[Cometgreen]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

My chocobo slept three days longer than I wanted it to, and it was odd when it showed it listening to music even though it was still sleeping, but it woke up. It was starving and had zero energy for those few days, but I got it fixed up when it woke. This is pretty much the case for most people, right? It's odd, but as long as it doesn't die, I'm not too mad.

The only thing that annoys me is that you lose affection while it is sleeping and starving, as you can't watch over it; and of course you lose time that could be spent boosting its stats. I think it's fine if chicks are supposed to sleep a lot after hatching, but they should address these side effects. We shouldn't be penalized for something we did not choose and cannot control.

[Taskmage]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

Well as a tester I've had it just the other way around, where a bug was discovered with reproduction conditions that were difficult to determine, and because the developers had never seen it and were unable to reproduce it on their own systems, they didn't believe it existed. When the game went to market and thousands of people began hammering on it instead of the thirty or so we had in QA, suddenly there were a bunch of screenshots appeared on our forums of our realistic player models stretched and cortorted to look like the cover of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

Yeah, there was some chicken little syndrome going on when the system behaved in a way that was unexpected and people assumed the problem was worse that it was. There's also a dearth of information on repro, which is to be expected coming from random end-users who were casually partaking in the process until they percieved a problem. However, I take issue with dismissing the problem out of hand based on these things because I've been burned by that attitude before. Maybe our homes and cities are safe, but it's possibly a piece of the sky did fall in the forest and we should check to make sure the rest of it isn't falling apart.


... mixed metaphors ftw!

[Macht]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

Well as a tester I've had it just the other way around, where a bug was discovered with reproduction conditions that were difficult to determine, and because the developers had never seen it and were unable to reproduce it on their own systems, they didn't believe it existed. When the game went to market and thousands of people began hammering on it instead of the thirty or so we had in QA, suddenly there were a bunch of screenshots appeared on our forums of our realistic player models stretched and cortorted to look like the cover of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.
Yeah, there was some chicken little syndrome going on when the system behaved in a way that was unexpected and people assumed the problem was worse that it was. There's also a dearth of information on repro, which is to be expected coming from random end-users who were casually partaking in the process until they percieved a problem. However, I take issue with dismissing the problem out of hand based on these things because I've been burned by that attitude before. Maybe our homes and cities are safe, but it's possibly a piece of the sky did fall in the forest and we should check to make sure the rest of it isn't falling apart.
... mixed metaphors ftw!

Can agree with that metaphor, can't agree though when the detail is so sketchy. All I've seen so that gives up idea of maybe a problem is:

• My chocobo is sleeping! (This one screams sky is falling and can be false)
• My chocobo slept and I didn't set care plan to (This one has potential, but still not enough detail. Did you ever set the Care Plan to Rest at some point? How was the chocobo health bar? etc...)

That's about all I'm seeing is those two and extreemly little detail to prove it an actual problem. The sleeping part I can see being lack of understanding because the Care Plan when you look at is always 1 Day ahead.

So you'll get the care plan saying that the Chocobo is currently Listening to Music when in truth this is the next care plan it's yet to do, what it is doing is finishing the last day of rest you had set in the care plan.

Like I'd go searching through a forest for a fallen piece of the sky or believe it's fallen if someone can't at least give some sort of guiding indicators. I mean a rock that visible, different type of dirt, near a stream in the river, something that will have some significance.

Lol, reminds me of "Juiper Lee" and her hunt to find a "Bat Otter". No one actually saw it, but they could say a Dog-of-a-Cousin-to-a-Friend-who-knows-a-Friend-who's-dog-knows-your-friends-dog-who-told-your-friend about it is just rediculous to be going after. Problems tend to leave indicators something more then just it's sleeping longer then I told it, especially when it's only happening to a few and not everyone.

Details are extreemly key to discovering the source of the problem and to prove it an actual problem. I mean what we got so far the two accounts appear to contradict eachother, which adds further confusion to it because you have two contradictory events that suggest this should be major then and happening to everyone yet it is not. So something that the players did has to be a result of it, by the fact that the chocobo sleeps without being told and sleeps longer then it is told. I wouldn't count this entirely to Rest being the cause, something else has to be the reason for it.

[Nazo]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

Well, my Choco just woke up tonight. Funny thing was Pulonono greeted me by saying, 'Wow! Your chocobo has been waking up every morning recently!' or something like that. Really? Guess she was just faking it when I visited.

I wasn't saying I thought the system should be easy, and I resent the implication that I'd been neglecting it. I've pretty much done nothing but look after my chocobo and craft in between checks since the update came out, but I can't devote endless hours every day to it, I have other commitments, and yes, sometimes I'd like to do events and xp, if that means I'm unable to successfully raise a choco then that isn't right.

The other thing is, how about some kind of warning? At the time my choco fell into this coma she had full health, had rested only recently, and was completely full. My experience thus far had shown me that her hunger level increased only slightly each day, yet suddenly she goes from completely full to starving in the space of a couple of hours? Come on...

[Macht]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

Well, my Choco just woke up tonight. Funny thing was Pulonono greeted me by saying, 'Wow! Your chocobo has been waking up every morning recently!' or something like that. Really? Guess she was just faking it when I visited.
I wasn't saying I thought the system should be easy, and I resent the implication that I'd been neglecting it. I've pretty much done nothing but look after my chocobo and craft in between checks since the update came out, but I can't devote endless hours every day to it, I have other commitments, and yes, sometimes I'd like to do events and xp, if that means I'm unable to successfully raise a choco then that isn't right.
The other thing is, how about some kind of warning? At the time my choco fell into this coma she had full health, had rested only recently, and was completely full. My experience thus far had shown me that her hunger level increased only slightly each day, yet suddenly she goes from completely full to starving in the space of a couple of hours? Come on...

Nah don't have to spend endless hours to it, I watched over my chocobo 10 times a days when it was an egg. That only was about maybe 10-15 min. of time to do.

Thing is the way the VCS members respond it's kind of using past tense to express future or current events. I would say it's kind of a bad translation in a way.

[devindh]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

Just thought I would throw my own exp in the mix so you can have some more information.

My chick hatched and on the first day I was very excited so I took the chick for two walks and some watching. The bar was very near depleted but I made sure not to deplete the whole way.

So I figure she needs some rest and I put a single day of rest for her. I was also testing the care system, I wanted to see if plan 1 'Basic Care' would automatically kick in after plan 0 ended, which it did.

My choc didn't wake up after that when basic care took over. I tried feeding but could not even though she was really hungry. I could no longer watch over her because the bar was completely depleted at this point.

It was at this time I got the hanky.

After three days I checked the net and found this thread and still had no ideas so I set the care plan to 3 days of music, skipped the next RL day, and came back after that.

I tried to feed but the taru still told me to wait but when I got into the raising sequence my chick was awake and very weak. I gave her two regular greens, which she weakly ate, and hoped for the best, sweating a little at the thought of a chocolixer.

The next day, I returned to a happy chick with a full health bar and no apparent side effects. I gave the hanky back at this time I think.

Since then we have been on walks making friends, listening to music and eating whatever random food I can find on a budget.

[Pebbles]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

Sleeping for 5 days now, starving, and affection has dropped from "regards as parent" to 'slightly enjoys your company".
If FeatheredFlower isn't awake on Saturday, I'm starting over, perhaps with an ISNM egg this time.

Edit: She's awake now, and I got the "is waking up every morning now" message at the same time. My feeling is that while the longer sleeping might not be a bug as such, the actual duration probably is. 5 days of sleeping leading to starvation and great loss of affection (parent -> endure company) is a bit much.

[Nakti]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

For those of you with super-sleepy chocobos, please don't despair. They will eventually wake up. They can't die and I don't think "Run Away" is even an option for them at the chick stage.

The two sleeping chocobos I know of woke up suddenly for no apparent reason. One had been at almost full energy and the other had been at zero energy and starving. One player had sent in a Bug Report, the other had not. Unfortunately, neither had been tracking what their exact actions were. The only commonality I saw was they had Care Plans of 1 day.

If you have a sleeping chocobo, I urge you to submit a Bug Report through the POL viewer with as much detail as possible.

If this isn't a bug, but many players have problems, I'm sure SE will give a statement on the "correct" use of the Care Plans. If this *is* a bug, the more Bug Reports SE gets, the more priority SE will give it.

SE rarely announces when they are working on most bugs, btw. It's only when it affects a large percentage of players or if the game becomes inoperable. Usually, SE will just announce "We did a FFXI update at such-and-such time to correct 'various issues'".

SE's own Care Plan information is contradictory. The graphic snapshots show Care Plans 1 to 4, but the Care Plan example shows 0 to 3 (what actually appears to players). If there's an "off-by-1" issue, there may be a problem with part of the code trying to execute day or plan 0 and another part trying to execute day or plan 1. That would explain why players would get reports for one plan and experience another.

[Centurion]

Re: CSP - Don't let your chickobo catch it!

i stopped reading on page six-
for what its worth, i dont think its a bug either.
i am wondering if people are caring for their chocobo while it is in the 'coma' state.
i noticed that even the simple care plan of 'Watching over chocobo' tires it a bit, and if people are doing it, it could perpetuate the comatose state.