Scorpion Arrows 49-59? I don't think so...

[Sabaron]

I would just like to note that according to major woodworking guides, that doing Scorpion Arrows from -10 is not a good idea unless your profit margin is absolutely insane.

First of all, getting a point of skill is worse than doing Alchemy 87-88. I did 2 crystal stacks and got a total of 0.1 skill... That is not viable at all in any book. This on a strong day for my crystal. If it was a weak day for my crystal, there is no possible way I could even attempt this synthesis....

You cannot skip the lower 50s level synths. It's just not productive.

First I figured I was just unlucky, but when I finished my 6th crystal stack having only gotten to 50, I shouted profanities into my linkshell and went off in search of lower level synths.

Please don't follow the guide. It's wrong..

[Caspian]

Re: Scorpion Arrows 49-59? I don't think so...

Yeah, I used the guide for about 20 levels, then just started using mysterytour and ffxiah on my own. Also use wiki to find what can be bought from npc's and help save some cost. I didnt do anything that was 10 levels above me until I had both +skill pieces of equipment and used adv. synth imagery. Even then I was breaking about 50% of my attempts, but was getting skillups on the majority of successes for a level or two.
Hold on and I'll look and see what I did at that level.

[Sabaron]

Re: Scorpion Arrows 49-59? I don't think so...

I already found it...

Oak Pole.

Not because it's a nice item, but NIN need to exchange it to get their AF Pants, so they sell well and never come back on the market. I need just enough to make scorpion arrow not suck.

[Caspian]

Re: Scorpion Arrows 49-59? I don't think so...

yeah, was oak poles.

[Jei]

Re: Scorpion Arrows 49-59? I don't think so...

I thought you meant rangers shooting it xD

[Haggai]

Re: Scorpion Arrows 49-59? I don't think so...

I did Scorpion Arrows from 49-59, but the profit margin (at the time) was HUGE. I used advanced support and had my gloves. Even though I broke many times, I still made a small profit.

[Icemage]

Re: Scorpion Arrows 49-59? I don't think so...

The break rate on Scorpion Arrows is not as bad as you'd think - and the materials are not very expensive as well as plentiful, particularly if you have the Bonecraft skill to make the Scorpion Arrowheads yourself.

Unlike Alchemy ammo synths, Woodworking ammo synths are both very forgiving and pretty good for skillups. The guides are very much correct. 49-59 is a great range for Scorpion Arrows.

P.S. Oak Poles suck. Non-stacking + pain in the butt materials (Oak lumber? Feh) + hardly anyone uses the bloody things except up and coming ninjas.


Icemage

[Haggai]

Re: Scorpion Arrows 49-59? I don't think so...

The break rate on Scorpion Arrows is not as bad as you'd think - and the materials are not very expensive as well as plentiful, particularly if you have the Bonecraft skill to make the Scorpion Arrowheads yourself.

And if you're not making your own Arrowwood Lumber at Carpenter's Landing, shame on you. Buying logs for 15-22gil, using Lumberjack, You can make multiple stacks in no time, for just a few crystals. Plus at 49, you should get some good HQs, so that helps. There's nothing like getting a full stack with one crystal and three logs.

You can do it at the regular Woodworking guild, but you have to go to Justi's Furniture (or the Landing) for Bundling Twine. Plus, it seems like CL has a higher supply, and cheaper prices.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Scorpion Arrows 49-59? I don't think so...

I did Scorpion Arrows from 49 to 59. Even knowing about Oak Pole's connection to NIN AF2, I'd still do Scorpion Arrows for the early levels. Oak Pole sells maybe once a day. But then, I also made my own arrowheads.

From 49 to 51, you'll break a lot. But since the ingredients are so cheap, starting this at 49 is still viable. It might not be the option you like, but it's a viable option nonetheless.

[Icemage]

Re: Scorpion Arrows 49-59? I don't think so...

Not to mention it's even easier these days. Moghancement : Earth is laughably easy and inexpensive to get and power up, so you can try the synth over and over and over without losing as much materials as previously.

Ammo synths are, and remain, the best levelling recipes for woodworking at virtually every level where they are available. They're generally easy to sell, stackable, and most have very easy material requirements compared to other synths in their range.


Icemage

[Sabaron]

Re: Scorpion Arrows 49-59? I don't think so...

I'm sorry but 6 crystal stacks for 1.1 point of skill is a horrible skill up rate. As I said, it was easier to do Alchemy 87-88 than to do Woodworking 49-50. I have points on my Alchemy Contract so I'm not getting Lumberjack. Woodworking, for me, is a support craft. I cannot make my own arrowheads and I had to wait 2 days to get a hold of the ones I have, so at least on Asura, they're not as common as you're suggesting--when they come on market they are quickly swallowed up as the arrows are profitable even at large market volume.

Oak Poles sell 3-5 per day, not 1 a day. NIN is so popular now as a main that there's no shortage of pantsless Ninja to go around. I made 12 poles and they should hopefully be gone within 2 weeks. Since I'm now at 51, (-8) I can do Scorpions well on a strong crystal day with guild support for the next 8 points and be done with woodworking. Of course, for other people 2 points of Oak poles means somewhere around 24-36 oak poles which may, indeed, not be very cool. The break rate doesn't concern me as the profit margin is very nice and the ingredients are all cheap. What does concern me is that 6 crystal stacks takes a good long while to use up and I feel that my time was wasted with this synthesis. I'm sticking with my recommendation that you not go -10 on Scorpions if you can avoid it. In the time I wasted going from 49 to 50, if I had instead chosen a closer synthesis, I would've more than likely made 3 points of skill instead. I may put off Scorpions further still as I can make Lightning/Ice arrows or the new Paralysis Arrows for a point as I can craft the heads. The thing that originally put me off of them was the Steel, Cermet, and Imperial Cermet respectively used to craft the bolt heads. Once I looked at the margins though, I can easily sell these bolts for a profit though they are not half as popular as scorpion (which is Ok since I'm not making 5 Quiver-stacks). The arrows sell on Asura (off AH for Profit) for less than the taru charges for them in Port Windy and undercutting a merchant on a higher end product is a sign that a synth will be viable. Of course most woodworkers probably don't have access to these bolt heads except via purchase where they can be prohibitively expensive in comparison to Scorpion.

My point basically:

If you can avoid Scorpion at -10... Do so. If you can't, you'll probably be ok, but the infrequent 0.1s and crystal breaks may lead to high levels of controller-smashing frustration which may end up costing you $30 when you throw your controller at the wall...

[Taskmage]

Re: Scorpion Arrows 49-59? I don't think so...

When the guides were written the profit from scorpion arrows was probably much better and the demand much higher, as rangers were much more in style back then and some of the alternative ammo for higher levels didn't exist.

I think I used scorpion arrows to get through most of my 50s and then switched to chests and ebony lumber to cap. If you want to avoid arrows entirely, chests are probably the next thing for you after oak poles. I AHed mine for a small profit—I wasted nothing but time back then—but the ingredients for dirt cheap so you could probably just NPC them and not even feel your wallet get lighter.

[Sabaron]

Re: Scorpion Arrows 49-59? I don't think so...

No, I'm not looking to avoid them entirely. My goal is speedy levelling of Woodworking craft without spending more than I make back even if my money is tied up in assets (which can sometimes be a good thing) rather than liquid. Therefore, -10 does not meet the goal and becomes unworkable. -5 to -7 on Scorpion, however, is quite enticing as the stack sizes for arrows and Scorpions' quiverability make them very attractive.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Scorpion Arrows 49-59? I don't think so...

Oak Poles sell 3-5 per day, not 1 a day.

I was basing my sales rate on Lakshmi Jeuno AH activity. Perhaps business is better on your server, or perhaps you are looking at AH activity in other cities as well. One thing I did notice with the Jeuno AH activity on Lakshmi for Oak Poles is that the last 25 sales are all by the same seller, and the last sale was pretty recent. If you plan to do Oak Poles for skills up on Lakshmi, it seems you have a competitor for that market.

NIN is so popular now as a main that there's no shortage of pantsless Ninja to go around. I made 12 poles and they should hopefully be gone within 2 weeks.

This is probably where my approach to crafting is different from yours. I'd rather do 6 dozen attempts at Scorpion arrows for only 1.1 skill ups (which, by the way, I think I did a bit better than that when I did that stretch) then have to wait 2 weeks to do another dozen attempts at skill ups.

You didn't mention image support. I assume you got advanced image support. Is that correct?

BTW, I thought about a skill up stretch which would compare well to doing Scorpion Arrows from 49 to 59. In Clothcraft, Silk Cloth caps at 53. I did Hunters Cotton (caps at 63) when I hit 53. Break rate was high, and thus skill ups were slow. Currently, my mule only has CC up to 55, mainly due to the fact that it's a pain to collect the Beetle Shells and make the necessary Carapace Powder. If I was unable to make the scorpion arrowheads and they weren't readily available on the market, I could see this recipe being similarly frustrating as Hunters Cotton.

[Sabaron]

Re: Scorpion Arrows 49-59? I don't think so...

I was standing right next to Ulicille(?) using Adv. Support (as always) facining south, the directon of earth on part of Lightningsday through part of Lightsday.