General Crafting Skill-up Rates

[Sabaron]

I was hoping I could get some people to post some synthesis skill-up rates here. I just did Alchemy 69-70 synthing Venom Bolt Heads (76) on Windsday with assistance. I figured it would be similar to other bolt head syntheses I had done, but it wasn't--I did 48 syntheses got 15 breaks and only gained 1.0 skill. I'm going to try Spartan Bullets (71) instead and see if that works better. I know a lot of people synthesize Anima at this level, but at least on Asura the expense is insane--some of the memory clusters (3 syntheses worth of memories) cost 1,000,000gil each! I can't afford to buy 16 million gil worth of memories just so I don't take a loss--one failure that breaks 2-3 memories could hurt bad (83,333gil per lost memory, ouch!). Some of the memories are cheap, but the Anima prices barely pay for the Mercury needed to make the anima. Venom Bolt Heads are looking like the way to go, but I just want to know ball-park (not interested in hard-core case studies) how many syntheses it takes to do 1 point of skill at each of the tiers. Unfortunately, I haven't been counting mine, but I'll try to keep a count on future crafts from 0-60.

[mikesjustice]

Re: General Crafting Skill-up Rates

Pre 60 a rough estimate of approx 1 stack of materials per skill up level.

Post 60 it's approx 3 stacks (36 synths) of materials per level to upwards of 4 stacks (48 synths). 36 is about average.

There are cases in which people can go longer or even much shorter, but these are generally the average skill up patterns you will see.

Last night as an example, I wanted to raise bone from 96-99. I knew I'd need approx 9 stacks of materials to rise 3 levels. I reached 99 with one synth worth left from my 9 stacks of materials.

[Aeni]

Re: General Crafting Skill-up Rates

In my opinion, it has a lot to do with how relatively easy the recipe is.

You get more skillups when you skill up on the days that your crystal is not aligned to (Either Light or Dark) On the elemental day exactly opposite of your crystal, I'd advise to not skill up because the chances of breaking increases (And the chances for skill up decreases) which is not a good thing if you're losing more materials than you are gaining skill in.

Complex recipes tend to be more than just one material. Since I've synthed in cooking before and my friends have all gotten near 100s in cooking as well, we can definitely agree on one thing. If the recipe calls for 3-5 or more materials, you're more than likely to get 0.2 more frequently than if you were to use a one material recipe (You'll only get frequent 0.1) As you know, getting 0.2s more often instead of 0.1 means that you're getting good skills up and can finish capping in that recipe a lot more quicker than plowing through "easier" synths which may turn out to be helluva lot more expensive in the long run (depending on the recipe and what the materials cost on your server)

Anyway, the only real solution to this mess is to do extensive research. Do not feel the need to rush into the craft! Take your time in deciding what you're really interested and lookup resources like FFXI Somepage. Study your AH for several days and get a feel for the supply and demand of each craft's items. Each server is different, so you can't get help by asking a public forum. Might stick to your own server and ask around, but don't expect to get straight answers either (People tend to get bitchy if they sense competition in their craft)

[Sabaron]

Re: General Crafting Skill-up Rates

In my opinion, it has a lot to do with how relatively easy the recipe is.

You get more skillups when you skill up on the days that your crystal is not aligned to (Either Light or Dark) On the elemental day exactly opposite of your crystal, I'd advise to not skill up because the chances of breaking increases (And the chances for skill up decreases) which is not a good thing if you're losing more materials than you are gaining skill in.

Complex recipes tend to be more than just one material. Since I've synthed in cooking before and my friends have all gotten near 100s in cooking as well, we can definitely agree on one thing. If the recipe calls for 3-5 or more materials, you're more than likely to get 0.2 more frequently than if you were to use a one material recipe (You'll only get frequent 0.1) As you know, getting 0.2s more often instead of 0.1 means that you're getting good skills up and can finish capping in that recipe a lot more quicker than plowing through "easier" synths which may turn out to be helluva lot more expensive in the long run (depending on the recipe and what the materials cost on your server)

Anyway, the only real solution to this mess is to do extensive research. Do not feel the need to rush into the craft! Take your time in deciding what you're really interested and lookup resources like FFXI Somepage. Study your AH for several days and get a feel for the supply and demand of each craft's items. Each server is different, so you can't get help by asking a public forum. Might stick to your own server and ask around, but don't expect to get straight answers either (People tend to get bitchy if they sense competition in their craft)

I wasn't really looking for general synthesis information. Just average numbers of syntheses per skill-point so I can ballpark my time consumption. At 70 Alchemy I've got that part pretty much down (and several million gil worth of crap to show for it). As for competition, I haven't found them that grumbly... nor do I kiss their feet simply because they can make Panacaea [ Which reminds me that I need to level up Chocobo digging so I can go find my own Philly Stones]. I haven't seen a 0.2 since I was below 50 either (even when I was making remedies which have 8 different ingredients: Chamomile, Wijnruit, Sage, Marjoram, Bohyada Moss, Honey, Distilled Water, Mistletoe).

[Jei]

Re: General Crafting Skill-up Rates

While I skill up goldsmith I always have pretty bad skilll up on hairpins >< you know, those simple fire + ingot ones.

[RunningDemon]

Re: General Crafting Skill-up Rates

My numbers 80-current are all that I really remember, and I was averaging 1/4 skillups because I would only synth on new moon. Since then I have dropped the rate some since I am just doing blessed gears for skill/break even when the price is right.

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: General Crafting Skill-up Rates

Meanwhile I live and die by fletchings, which I usually start crafting about 10 levels below cap, rarely break, and get a constant stream of .1-.3 skill ups for ten levels. Feltchings of course are nothing more than wind + wings.

[DakAttack]

Re: General Crafting Skill-up Rates

I find the items that give the best skill ups are usually the least used in other recipes... sheets... >_<

[Sabaron]

Re: General Crafting Skill-up Rates

I find the items that give the best skill ups are usually the least used in other recipes... sheets... >_<

Hehe... I tend to focus on items that have a good enough markup so that I can actually make money despite my failure rate. Alchemy is excellent for this as most consumables sell at a semi-fixed cost. I did Brass sheets for Goldsmithing (because there was nothing else available at that level to make that wasn't a horrible loss) and ended up waiting 3 RL weeks for them to sell... I had 3 stacks, sold one, gave up and turned the rest into scales for more skillups and wrote it off as a loss.

I'm not really looking for information on How to skillup, though, but rather the rate of skillup at 70+ so I can figure out what my time rate and investment costs will be.

Specifically:
Thus far, synth/skill point have tended to ramp up as I get higher and higher and what I'm wondering is am I going to have to craft 10 stacks of Panacea just to make 1 skill point? (or worse yet, make 40,000 Papillons--filling Bastok with Butterfly-winged subligar-wearing Hume males who will be keenly amused by the sexual implications of wearing gossamer wings while parading around the fountain in their undies).

What I'm trying to do here, is to get a ball park estimate for how long this is going to take me. I've already set myself on Venom Arrowheads, though at my current loss rate, I may do Spartan Bullets to 71 just to drop the losses. Since I make glue proficiently, it's basically free... The problem is acquiring the bone chips which are in high demand on Asura and tend to not be available in the quantities I need to make glue (see my Alchemy Guide...Animal Glue is my arch-nemesis). With my HQ rate on glue, I usually buy enough chips to make enough glue for my purposes at NQ rate and then sell my extra stacks. This usually pays for a good portion of the ingredients since doing bolt heads is really a slow way to make money...

For instance, say I'm doing VB Heads from 71-76, that's 5 skill points. If the average crystal-consumption rate per skill point is 36-48, that's an average of 42 crystals per point. I'll need 210 crystals, 210 Animal Glue (shudder...35 stacks of Bone Chips at NQ), 210 Venom Potions and a holy crapload of time. I am trying to time my 88th Alchemy Ding with my acquisition of my 150,000th Guild Point so that I can buy Emeralda as soon as I get to Veteran. Incidentally, I haven't purchased either of the two skill+ items since they don't appear to be that useful unless you are trying to HQ something that's incredibly difficult or you need them to bump your skill up to do a particular synth because you can't find a good one at 1-2 points lower. Emeralda gives MH: Alchemy which is supposed to increase my HQ rate which sounds far more delicious than 170,000GP for +2 skill. Not that I'm not planning on getting the two Skill+ items, I'm just not so keen on them over Emeralda. The alchemy 70,000GP item (Cadeuceus) doesn't really suit my fancy in the fashion sense, either. I'm more keen on the Clothcrafter's Magnifying Spectacles.

[mikesjustice]

Re: General Crafting Skill-up Rates

Pre 60 a rough estimate of approx 1 stack of materials per skill up level.

Post 60 it's approx 3 stacks (36 synths) of materials per level to upwards of 4 stacks (48 synths). 36 is about average.

Very rough estimate:

36 synths = 1 skill up point after level 60, upwards of 48 synths per skill up point in the higher 90's. It's approx a 3:1 ratio.

[Sabaron]

Re: General Crafting Skill-up Rates

That's all I was looking for: very rough. Thanks guys.

[Myaku]

Re: General Crafting Skill-up Rates

Quote:
Pre 60 a rough estimate of approx 1 stack of materials per skill up level.

Post 60 it's approx 3 stacks (36 synths) of materials per level to upwards of 4 stacks (48 synths). 36 is about average.

Very rough estimate:

36 synths = 1 skill up point after level 60, upwards of 48 synths per skill up point in the higher 90's. It's approx a 3:1 ratio.

I find the 1 stack/level -> 3 stacks/level change happens at 50, not 60.

It without a doubt changes at 50, maybe not to the full 3 stacks/level of 60+, maybe it is 2 stacks/level, but it definately changes at 50.