sub crafts effecting HQ results

[pearlsea]

My plan at the moment is to lvl clothcraft to 100 eventualy to HQ synths, but some synths require a sub craft and im currious if you need to have a high lvl also in the sub crafts to HQ it.

[Caspian]

Re: sub crafts effecting HQ results

I'm about 99% sure it doesn't. It will however affect your breaks, and you need to be at a high enough crafting rank in that craft to be able to do it at all, just like if it was your main craft.
i.e. A level 0 goldsmith doesn't even have the option to craft gold ores into a gold ingot.

[Jei]

Re: sub crafts effecting HQ results

It does apply to the HQ tier as far as I know. For example an item that needs 30Smith 10 Cloth, you'll break the first tier if you have both craft at +11, which are 41 smith 21 cloth.

[Taskmage]

Re: sub crafts effecting HQ results

That's my understanding as well. If you want a 25% HQ rate on a synth, your skills must be 31 levels above the skill caps of all skills used.

As an example, if you wanted a 50% HQ rate on Love Chocolate, you would need 52 Clothcraft, 52 Cooking, and 52 Leatherworking. ^^

[Caspian]

Re: sub crafts effecting HQ results

So on hi lvl items that require sub crafts in the 50's you can never break the first tier for HQ's?
Thats kinda crappy.

[Mithrael]

Re: sub crafts effecting HQ results

I too can confirm. My wife is unable to HQ a bone craft synth (she's 53 levels over its cap) because her GS skill is only at the cap. She's 0/24 for HQing it.

[Caspian]

Re: sub crafts effecting HQ results

Thats some bullsh*t. I had been told before that as long as you were at the cap for the item it didn't matter. The liars.
That is pretty freaking weak.
Task, you have to only be 31 lvls above cap to get to 2nd tier? I was originally told it was 50. Do you have the numbers for all the tiers including percentages of HQ's? 11 for first tier right?

[Taskmage]

Re: sub crafts effecting HQ results

Current dogma:
11 levels above - ~12% HQ rate
31 levels above - ~25% HQ rate
51 levels above - ~50% HQ rate

According to Eruntalon's old research the middle tier experiences much more sway than the others based on day, moon phase, etc. So actual percentages on small samples in that tier can vary widely.

[Caspian]

Re: sub crafts effecting HQ results

Thanks task, I'll have to take a look at it when I get home, filter at work is blocking out that site.
One of the other main things I'm trying to figure out, which I'm assuming is on that site, is how moon phase and days affect HQ rate. I've been told exact opposite things on what helps HQ's. Been told full moon and lightsday, but then also been told new moon and darks.
Anyway, thanks for your help.

[Aeni]

Re: sub crafts effecting HQ results

Current dogma:
11 levels above - ~12% HQ rate
31 levels above - ~25% HQ rate
51 levels above - ~50% HQ rate

According to Eruntalon's old research the middle tier experiences much more sway than the others based on day, moon phase, etc. So actual percentages on small samples in that tier can vary widely.

I can tell you from experience that the 2nd figure (31 levels, 25% HQ) is wrong. I have done many synths on just about any moon phase, but always watched my days. I think I HQ in that range about 35-40% on average. On the new or full moon, that rate doesn't rise appreciably and on two occassions that I remember, my HQ rate actually sucked worse.

There's gotta be better data and evidence, but as we all well know, the best crafters tend to keep their secrets a ... secret.

[Icemage]

Re: sub crafts effecting HQ results

Sub-craft level does not affect HQ rate. I occasionally have to make items with Smithing or Goldsmithing requirements above my current level when earning points for Woodworking. If the item is low level, I still get the expected HQs (but I break way more of them than I should due to insufficient subcraft level).

i.e. my results end up something like

Break
Break
HQ
NQ
HQ
Break
NQ
HQ
Break
etc.



Icemage

[Mithrael]

Re: sub crafts effecting HQ results

I completely disagree with you on this one icemage. Do some tests and provide some numbers to counter, and you may sway me. But there is no reason on earth that a lv.60 Bonecrafter cannot HQ one Bone Earring out of 24 attempts unless the Goldsmithing skill applies.

Are you taking into account items or moghancements that enhance HQ rates?

[Aeni]

Re: sub crafts effecting HQ results

I completely disagree with you on this one icemage. Do some tests and provide some numbers to counter, and you may sway me. But there is no reason on earth that a lv.60 Bonecrafter cannot HQ one Bone Earring out of 24 attempts unless the Goldsmithing skill applies.

Are you taking into account items or moghancements that enhance HQ rates?

Wait ... I think you and Icemage both agree on the same thing.

But there is no reason on earth that a lv.60 Bonecrafter cannot HQ one Bone Earring out of 24 attempts ...

... is what you posted.

Sub-craft level does not affect HQ rate.

... is what Icemage posted.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I fail to see where the disagreement lies in this argument (or counterpoint)...

Going back to what Taskmage posted there, are those figures you posted for specific kinds of synthing? For example, maybe those are the correct results for synthing that involves a sub-craft? (Or another craft that gets affected by your synthing attempts in the main craft) Because I can tell you this much: results for cooking do not apply to those formulas.

[balvenie]

Re: sub crafts effecting HQ results

I also firmly believe Sub-craft skill must also meet tier levels in order to HQ. When I was skilling up Goldsmithing on Coronette's, my boneworking was at level 78. I made a good 25-30 coronette's and never got an HQ. I'd make these about 3-4 at a time so day/moon phase was always varied. (Great skillup / Profit synth by the way, sell in Windy)

[mikesjustice]

Re: sub crafts effecting HQ results

Subcrafts must also break the proper tier along with the main to HQ according to that tier. The synth is only as strong as the weakest link, which is generally the subcraft. With that, all participating subcrafts must clear tier.

In the scenerio of Haubergeon, on main you can achieve tier 31 over cap, however on sub cloth, you can only achieve tier 11. Tier 11 is the weakest link therefore making tier 31 on haubergeon impossible to reach.

Also....

Current dogma:
11 levels above - ~12% HQ rate
31 levels above - ~25% HQ rate
51 levels above - ~50% HQ rate

Tier 11 = 5%-10% HQ
(Tier 11 items are neither 5% or 10%, but both. This tier is item dependant. Hauberks and triumph earrings will HQ approx at 5%. Haubergeons, Brigs, Phantom earring HQ at approx 10%. Accumulated and averaged, this tier HQ's at about 7-8%. 7%-8% is consistant with many high lvl crafters data. More than likely because they take their entire tier 11 career totals and average, yet they do not look at the results of the individual pieces.

Tier 31 = 25-30% HQ
It's not uncommon to see a consistant 30% HQ average in this tier. Over time you generally land in this arena.

Tier 51 = 50% HQ
That's consistant. However this breaks down to approx 47% HQ, 48% NQ, 5% Fail for no required subcraft items.