B"word" on fishing ecomny..

[PetriW]

Originally posted by Omena
On Midgardsormr:

Sniper Ring -- Was 180k at one point up to 500k
Leaping Boots -- Was 200k at one point up to 300k
Emperor Hairpin -- Was 230k at one point up to 400k

All these are limited supply items. There is a low fixed maximum on how many can be introduced on the market (because of the spawn timer). There's also been an enormous influx of new low level direct damage players to buy these items. I'd guess most of them by farming BCNM40, fishing carp or farming NM mobs themselves. Thus causing the price drops you see close to unlimited supply items from BCNM40 (you can't say these are hard to farm, I've done over 40 BCNM40, that's a lot of erase scrolls). Heck, when I kept track of Erase the price could vary 150k between the Sunday and Friday (most people do BCNM on saturday and sunday).

Originally posted by Kutch
*Sigh*
If you can't beat'em, join'em..

Lets just ask SE to not only make botting legal, but also to ease the process by:

1) allowing alt-tab to ease 3d party application integration
2) Creating conditional macros (if - then - else)
3) create /autoexp - automatic fighting (style depending on jobs)
4) Automatic purchase and sell ability. Make your toons buy/sell

This way, we can all just log on to the game, and go out and play soccer. MUCH better, thankyouverymuch.

Can we get a little more whine please?
And there's windowers out there and has been for quite a while. Not gonna link to it per these boards rules.

[neosoul]

Of course in all of PetriW's posts he isnt against botting. Rather he blames the players for not being able to get uber gil like the bots.

[Alontier]

Did a little searching and what I've found so far are:
5 PC bots, 2 from JP origin and 3 from NA.
2 PS2 bots, both JP
(NO, I am NOT going to tell you where so stop PM'ing me)

The JP PC bots work mostly with bitmap recognition
The NA bots use memory offsets and pixel recognition
The PS2 involves a bit programming.

Some of these bots are also used for NM, AH, Questing and Crafting.

What I've also found on a JP msgboard was this:


"We are currently checking for unattended playing."
"Please stop fishing and move to back from that spot."
"Yes"
"No"

So atleast some steps are taken against AFK fish botting,
but ONLY unattended (afk) botting.

[tfung]

The more people complain about botters, the more "nerfs" SE would put into the fishing system. As a result, more people will be bitching about how SE nerfed fishing for them, while the botters find ways around it. It's a vicious cycle...

Since the botters won't stop botting, maybe if people stopped complaining and pretend it doesn't happen then SE would stop nerfing fishing for all you legit fishers....

As for what I think, since I don't fish at all (lvl5 fishing), I couldn't care less about botters... People always say that fishing creates more money in the economy, but how do you know how much gil SE pumps into the economy each day through npcs, etc... I'm sure in the backend, they don't let the supply of gil on the market run out of control, from people losing items in synthing, to people buying items from npcs instead of AH, people cancelling their accounts with gil intact, etc....

[PetriW]

Originally posted by neosoul
Of course in all of PetriW's posts he isnt against botting. Rather he blames the players for not being able to get uber gil like the bots.

I believe botting is cheating.

If you think the bots are making "uber gil" with 200k in a day then you're doing something wrong, with your level you can make more gil in a day than a 24/7 saru fisher makes in a week. Yesterday I made 200k in 4 hours (new fresh from S-E merchants) so I don't really think 50 people cliffing makes any noteworthy difference in the economy, especially not since the zoning stuff. Most of them are probably selling the gil online anyway, then shouldn't we blame the ones who are buying gil online for giving the bots a reason to bot?

I don't ever remember seeing a rant thread about that so I think those are more rare than fishing rant threads but it's more harmful than botting since it gives a RL economic reason for botting leading to large scale botting by a few individuals to earn their living.

[vulcan4d]

Just to let those people know, Japanese people are allowed to bot. They been botting long before NA's have. It's only been recently after all the NA's started complaining about botters that SE started to take action, but they are leaving JP players alone.

It's hard to say whether botters are good or bad on the economy. IMO I don't see anything bad they can do, I mean most of them fish for bastore bream in Windurst and sell it at the guild. With them having more money they tend to buy more stuff from the AH, yes from you resulting in "you" having more money too. Those botters fishing for moat carp sell it to the ah, and only other fisherman buy them for the lu shang's quest since carp arn't that good for anything else ^^. Now those fisherman can get more fish, more money, buy more things, giving you more money.

I think SE should make fishing automated. I mean there's nothing there to do, it's pretty borring and extremely time consuming.

[Alontier]

Originally posted by vulcan4d
Just to let those people know, Japanese people are allowed to bot. They been botting long before NA's have. It's only been recently after all the NA's started complaining about botters that SE started to take action, but they are leaving JP players alone.

No idea where you got this crap from but if you (can) read some of the JP ffxi boards
you'd see that there are a lot of JP botters also getting banned.
Some of the boards even post names of possible botters so that other people can check and report them.

[neosoul]

I think SE should make fishing automated. I mean there's nothing there to do, it's pretty borring and extremely time consuming.

Yeah why not just make farming automatic, or crafting automatic, lets not try to put any effort to get any money at all. GREAT IDEA!

[Kutch]

Originally posted by vulcan4d
I think SE should make fishing automated. I mean there's nothing there to do, it's pretty borring and extremely time consuming.

Yea, let's remove ALL the stuff that is tedious and boring. Heck, let's just make the game run itself, so you don't have to do anything to make your character advance, you just log in, and then sit back and enjoy..

Seriously, fishing is SUPPOSED to be tedious and time-consuming. There's no glory in letting a bot do the dirtywork for you, no respect to be gained.

btw, yesterday, I was fishing in Jugner, and I had 3 "check-ups" made on me, people thinking I'm a bot.. So sad that even non-botters are now made suspicious because of the folks that cheat; ;

[Cali]

So... from what I read, these are the reasons why fishbots are bad:-

-They fish.
-They are high lvl fishers.
-They ruined economy, for example, ...well there isn't but they do, because they did in this game called Ragnarok Online, and they are the same.
-They fish when they sleep, really not fair to me.

Japanese play when I sleep too, that's pretty unfair, because they get to play when I sleep... and high lvl players ruin the economy too, I have proof, I can't afford anything because they are rich.
Oh, and I think what most anti-topic posters are saying 'Don't complain more now, we don't want any more than the nerf'... ask for nerf, and you will only regret it later, that's the rule of online games... no? If the bots don't have a big effect, leave them be, it's not like SE isn't banning any they found or are reported.

[Omena]

Originally posted by Cali
So... from what I read, these are the reasons why fishbots are bad:-

-They fish.
-They are high lvl fishers.
-They ruined economy, for example, ...well there isn't but they do, because they did in this game called Ragnarok Online, and they are the same.
-They fish when they sleep, really not fair to me.

Japanese play when I sleep too, that's pretty unfair, because they get to play when I sleep... and high lvl players ruin the economy too, I have proof, I can't afford anything because they are rich.
Oh, and I think what most anti-topic posters are saying 'Don't complain more now, we don't want any more than the nerf'... ask for nerf, and you will only regret it later, that's the rule of online games... no? If the bots don't have a big effect, leave them be, it's not like SE isn't banning any they found or are reported.

Umm, that was a pretty dumb argument. Of course the Japanese play when you are asleep because they have a different time zone. Obviously I'm not cheating if I play when someone else is alseep, only if I somehow play when I'm asleep.

And obviously bots in FFXI are nothing compared to bots in RO, but they do have a theoretical effect on the economy and by ignoring them the situation MIGHT escalate to something like RO where bots rule the market and GMs go on banning sprees where SUPPOSEDLY many innocents get banned aswell. I personally never believed in the innocent people getting banned, because I myself was never suspected/reported of botting and yet people kept complaining about how bot hunters harrass them all the time. I wonder why. :angel:

[Cali]

No no, I was being sarcastic about the 'JP play when I sleep' because people can't stop whining for a second...

As for the fishing bot affecting economy...
-for NM drops or BC drops, the reason they are rising because a skilled group arised and monopoly the market on certain items? It's not hard when you have a LS dumb enough to do it with you...
-for fishes. moat carp stayed at 4k for a few months now, where's the price pump? well I put in a 4.5k dozen of carps just to see if the instant buyer will get it. But I have yet to see any fishes got out of reach. And for fishes outside safe zone, you will fish monsters, and I remember reading that fished monsters rised in level if you don't kill it, so if say you put a lv75 at yuhtunga fishing.. whatever, you can still get killed if your fished monster get higher than your level, right? and if bots can react to that, that's pretty advanced.. next will be friendlist bot that can add friend and even chat..?

I am still waiting for my bot /tell by bot hunters lol I am camping ochiudo's kote these days, 560k+ in AH... and apparently I have 80% catch rate on the NM, I bet lots of the campers think I am a campbot.

And, what annoyed me the most is: "JP fishbot", why is it "JP"? when they don't reply to your tell? if NA don't cheat, it's pretty...scary..

[Yunna]

Originally posted by Omena
Umm, that was a pretty dumb argument. Of course the Japanese play when you are asleep because they have a different time zone. Obviously I'm not cheating if I play when someone else is alseep, only if I somehow play when I'm asleep.

And obviously bots in FFXI are nothing compared to bots in RO, but they do have a theoretical effect on the economy and by ignoring them the situation MIGHT escalate to something like RO where bots rule the market and GMs go on banning sprees where SUPPOSEDLY many innocents get banned aswell. I personally never believed in the innocent people getting banned, because I myself was never suspected/reported of botting and yet people kept complaining about how bot hunters harrass them all the time. I wonder why. :angel:

Lol, you couldn't tell Cali was being sarcastic?

[navpops]

i have 2 computers, and 2 accounts. one, in front of me, one, a foot to the left of me or so.

i log on my level 1 mule and camp him at XXX fishing area , occasionally hitting my /fish /wait XXX /fish /wait XXX /fish macro while doing something else on my other account (level, farming, talking)

is this botting? no. anyone can do it. im not cheating.

is this hurting the economy? yes. no effort for me, not boring.. because i dont pay attention

do i pay attention to the screen? NO. i have it open wide to the "tell" thing, incase a GM tells me, but other then that, i dont care what people say. I'm not a bot, and anyone can do what im doing. is it pathetic ? haha, yes. but its easy money. with that said, not all of these "bots" are bots.

[Trell]

Gawd, you people take this stuff to such great lenghts. It's almost... sad. I just wish you whiners could just be quiet once and for all, so that SE could stop screwing with fishing for normal dedicated non-bitching fisherman.

Don't you people get it? There's nothing SE can do to stop botters when you consider the way fishing works in this game! Any measure they take will simply make everything harder for people who DON'T bot. For every (rare) botter who gets caught and banned, hundreds of honest fishers get penalized and inconvenienced. If you have any clue of how a fishing bot works, you would realize this. Because of this massive phenomenon of stupidity and paranoia, aside from having our fishing nerfed, we get harrassed by idiots crying bot almost daily, simply because we seem to catch more fish than them. Heaven forbid we've actually skilled up conventionally to get to that point.

Please stop with the obscure unsupported economical theories, mkay? Care to offer proof as to how botting has ruined the economy and is causing this hellish inflation? From where I'm standing, since PC release, eventhough some prices have fluctuated, prices have been going DOWN in general. The reason why SOME items have gone up in price can often be attributed to factors that have nothing to do with fishing, as in some cases explained in previous posts in this thread.

Face it, you people are complaining based on the principle of the thing. Call it honor or jealousy. Who cares. Some people like to take the easy road and you don't like this supposed unfair advantage it gives them. Don't pretend it's about anything else, ESPECIALLY economics.

Botters haven't stopped me from getting almost every high-priced item I need for my character. Why? Because instead of whining and bitching about botters at every opportunity, I handle my business!

JR.

P.S. Yes PetriW, SSG Rawks!