B"word" on fishing ecomny..

[Trav1s]

Originally posted by PetriW
Yeah right, good comparison. If there was widespread item duping in FFXI it'd be very different from how bots affect the economy.
Bot fishing while allowing a person to make quite a lot more gil than normally possible is still controllable. Item duping creates an unlimited supply instantly dumping prices on popular items rather than raising them slightly.

Why are you defending the botters?

Hmm...

[Geo]

Maybe he isnt so critcal as you? ;\

[PetriW]

Originally posted by Trav1s
Why are you defending the botters?
Hmm...

Because most who post about it are just whiners who have nfc what they're talking about.

[ibroyles]

Originally posted by Geo
Whats wrong with botters?
90% of all JP fishers bot.

Just wondering where you get your statistics. Aren't the majority of JP players actually playing on PS2? How exactly do you fishbot on PS2?

[BloodRedPoet]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Geo
Whats wrong with botters?
90% of all JP fishers bot.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if thats true, then i feel that 100% of the botter's should be perm banned.

Chill it mr.KKK...

Anyway... for about lets say, 3 days, <-Was a botter

Come on flame me, I really would be more offended if you made fun of my choice of pizza toppings. True that botting is illegal... but so is playing this game under the age of 12... and looking at some of your "Moma tlod me boterz r bad" post, bleh.

Seriously, are you going to travel, nationwide, and report every -13 year old playing this game? Or is it just too far for your lazy ass so you pick on another TOS breaker. Truth is botting only effects you if you let it. Like the only other smart poster on this thread said: +50 normal people while make 1-10 botters not matter as much.

(btw, about 80%+ people who cry about botters are not even fishers(or about skill lvl 10). Camp botters... now that is a problem. Use your whining on them... also a great way to get gil, greedy bastards)

[murmur]

I remember running into a friend outside the zone into Windurst, skilling up his summonning magic skill. He made a crack about having been watching the fishing botters zone in back and forth the past couple hours. I asked how he knew and he asked, "Can't you see how they walk?" They don't walk straight, and lurch forward, like a newborn Frankenstein, stopping every few seconds because their fishing macro goes off. I was disturbed o_O;;;;;;.

I for one and inclined to being VERY wary of McCarthyism and am glad that Square is cautious and erring on the more lenient side in regards to punishing different offenses. I agree with the other poster in regards to the difficulty in assessing Botters with certainty while minimizing detrimental affects to innocent players.

You can see they've been trying to find a way to address the situation. And already it does inconvenience legitimate players too, with annoying /tells and having to zone or such (if that's true). I'm sure Square wants to do away with botters also, but they're a very intelligent company, looking towards the long term, seeking to prevent future happenings of different issues to create a more fair playing environment, rather than going on a banning spree where it doesn't solve the problem, but also loses them customers and additional money in Customer Service and policing/investigating numerous emails/reports, many of which are out of spite and greed. Do YOU want to play in a world with Big Brother and where everyone's a tattle-telling spy that can wield threats over you if you don't do something they like? (like saying "hell no", when they ask you for money. OOOOOOOO you cursed, I'm going to try to ban you and waste your time and money, even though it was I that was wasting your time in the first place and you just wanted to be left alone. :mad: )

Botters don't hurt you or my playing in the small scale present time. Thus it's not an issue that needs immediate, decisive short-term action (banning). But in regards to fairplay and it's effect in the long term game economy, I'd say, of course Square and the FFXI community doesn't want it. That's not in question. What's needed is a good long-term solution. Whorbital did an amazing job bringing up the difficulty Square faces in addressing the situation.

And from a company standpoint, yes botting is bad. Fairplay encourages players, thus keeping long-term customers, who bring in friends and more players, who're more likely to also stay. Botting discourages players, and instead breeds more bots, lessening the inflow of future players from bad feedback, and losing more of the customers you have. You'll lose the good gamers, who want to play the game and have challenges and good gamers won't be be inclined to coming either. And THOSE are the players a gaming company wants to target, right? Who wants to buy a game to set up a bot? o_O? You're not even going to keep the botters in the long term because once they're bored because THEY'RE not the ones playing yet they have all this money with which they bought what they wanted, why would they continue paying?

Even ingame, your supply from legitimate players is lower because future and current fishers are discouraged by botters. Sure people still start fishing all the time, overall you're losing what you could've potentially had. Instead botting encourages a greater percentage of the supply to be found from more botters, crowding out real players who would've come from a higher price in fish. Supply and demand works just fine without bots, thank you. Even if we pretend bots don't effect the game economy, it's detrimental to fairplay, which discourages players. Why bother fishing and and work hard to become an elite fisher, when others do it way more easily by botting. Sorta cheapens the title. That's what I mean about discouraging. Doesn't matter if it's true or not, it's a mental thing that effects player's attitude and makes one feel like they're wasting their time. Which, my friend, is bad business if you're in the entertainment industry. So no, I really don't think bots are God's Gift to us.

[Koroco]

Fishing botters? Ummm I dunno why you guys have so much hate about them. Personnally I don't mind them. Only way I can see them hurting the economy is if they are selling there catches on AH but even still. If they are trading Moat Carp to get Lushangs and some money to buy an expensive equipment, all the freedom to them. They are hurting by buying expensive equipment, they are helping the seller.

Personally the only botters that I don't like are NM. Because they are botting equipment I need but what can ya do.

[twylyght]

As to the Diablo 2 comparison, wtf.

The only diablo2 comparison there should be is pindlebot (obviously).


Personally, I’m mixed on the bot issue, but more towards the pro-bot side. I have never botted. What’s so bad about a program that does a tedious task for you? Do anti-botters not use calculators? What about telephones? Office asistants anyone?Hell, even the internet. I could go to Colorado from Oregon to talk to my family, or I could just call them and SAVE TIME. I could send an important document to Japan, or I could just email it. Get my point? We have inventions to make life easier.
The only reason I’m mixed is because of the "Use of any cheat codes or cheat devices." in the agreement. Botting COULD be placed under "cheat devices" but it's not altering the game in any way. SE didn't really "define" what a cheating device is. In the agreement it doesn't say "no third party programs," which means bots are legal. Cheating is altering the game to an unfair advantage. Having a computer program do a task for you is in no way alteration of the game. The only thing that is "altered" is your budget. I don't see how that is an unfair advantage. Anyone can use the bot.

I’m not sure, but doesn't the fishing bot just hit the macro for you?
If that's true then that fisherman that you see catching shiat loads of fish took the time to level his skills. If you are only getting 2 bites an hour or something, you are obviously not fishing in the right spot.

What does SE care if someone makes lots of accounts for fishing? More money for SE. More Gil for the person but less Money. Which is more important? Gil or Money? SE is hella rich anyway. What was it, 500k active accounts? 500,000 * 50 = 25,000,000 (Assuming one person only has one account which is 90% the case). Now, 500,000 * 15.95 (Ave. of 3 characters per account) = 7,975,000 A MONTH. I don't know what their expenses are, but they sure as hell can't exceed 8 million a month.

[LilTwylite]

I have 2 main reasons I don't like fish-botters:

#1 -- I now run into people with this theory that "anyone over lvl 40 fishing is a bot" & that really pisses me off. I've fished a lot, been there for ever lost catch & skillup, and I can say that as much as I want & not convince some people I'm not lying. Of course, any player or GM that saw me in-game & watched for a while could see that I occasionally am late on my macro because I'm watching tv, I talk to my LS, and that I synth my own bait (which I don't think bots can do yet).

#2 -- people who bot have no reason to care about their money. People say that they don't effect the economy, but they do: when greedy people overprice at item, after working hard for my gil, I'm not going to pay an extortionist price, I'll wait for it to go back down. Bots with easy cash will buy whatever they want, & have no reason to care if the price is fair or not.

[neosoul]

Petriw is just defending his bots. You need a brain lobotomy to enjoy fishing up to 90's.

[Icemage]

Bots have a detrimental effect on the economy, but it is a subtle one unless you look hard.

The argument that "anyone can bot" is completely spurious. It is very obvious that it is a violation of the terms of service. Square-Enix HAS made their position clear on this, as I have seen and spoken with several players who have been suspended or even perma-banned for botting (and rightly so).

Even if it weren't a violation of TOS, if everyone botted, all that would do is make money completely meaningless. If your bot pulls in 200K without you lifting a finger, and everyone was making 200K a day, you'd soon see the entire game economy collapse as the value of gil devalued from inflation.

As it stands, the botters have a minimal impact ONLY because they represent a small minority of players. It is extremely irritating for me, as a legitimate player, to save for a month of playing time to purchase a single item for, say, 700K, while some greedy botter goes out and watches a movie and goes to sleep while raking in 100K-200K per night. Even worse, it is very possible that I was forced to buy that item for more than it was worth because botters used their ill-gotten gains to purchase up part of the supply, thus forcing the price higher than it would have been.

Why should legitimate players who invest their time actively making money in-game be penalized in this fashion?

This is not an issue of jealousy - I simply have no respect for people who have such a lack of honor as to cheat, and so insensitive as to think they hurt no one else with their actions.


Icemage

[PetriW]

Originally posted by neosoul
Petriw is just defending his bots. You need a brain lobotomy to enjoy fishing up to 90's.

You're free to report me for macro fishing anytime, since I'm there anyway a GMs attention isn't a problem.
As for needing a lobotomy, sure you do if you actually watch the screen all the time while doing it, most fishermen past 20 skill know how to read a book and fish at the same time.

[neosoul]

read a book? Like I said you need a brain lobotomy to enjoy fishing.

I dont think everyone pays a monthly fee to read a book and type macros. Besides being overly defensive already spoiled the integrity of your posts.

[Icemage]

PetriW does not bot, and your sideways implication is both unworthy and spiteful. Move on.

Oh, and PetriW is right - any decently levelled fisherman in this game knows how to do something else while fishing if need be. I can hold a conversation on a cell phone while eating a slice of pizza, and still fish normally with one hand (using a controller). Reading a book is child's play, by comparison.

Ordinarily I just chat with my LS members while fishing, or sometimes with other fishermen the area. It in no way hampers my ability to type or chat coherently.


Icemage

[neosoul]

Icemage your post is unneeded and a waste of everyone's bandwith, move on. And how do you know he doesnt bot? Because he reads Harry Potter?