Imaging support question.

[AzzHauler]

Since the imaging support enhances (read:increases) your skill level, is that factored in when determining if you will gain skill on a synth? Like if you are using the adv. support and reach the level limit with your skill + support, will you gain anymore? And if so, can you return to the recipe after the support has worn off for more skill gains?

[Rivant]

I, like many crafters, am mainly concerned with skill gain, not crafting success. Typically, I will cheer when my synth fails yet I get a +0.2 gain. I too would like to know if image support affects skill gaining. It doesn't say explicitly "how much" image support raises it, so I am hesitant to use it on a synth that is any more or less than 1 level higher than my current level. Often though I hear "always use image support! always use image support!" but I just don't know the answer as to skill gains. Anybody?

[Evaporater]

according to my experience so far, i usually get a skill gain everytime my crystal breaks :sweat: .

[Painkiller]

I think you will get the skill up with or without Image Support if the recipe is higher than your current skill.

But at high skill level, sometime a failure is a lost of money.
So, you have to use Image Support if you're trying to make something higher than your current skill (more than +3 - +5 skill).

From my reference Alchemy site:
Advanced Image Support will give you +5 - +10 skill, so you have more chance of success if you try to make +5 - +10 recipe.

For example:
If your Alchemy skill is 84 and would like to make Super Ether for skill up.
Super Ether = Water Crystal + Dried Marjoramx3 + Arhimen Wing + Treant Bulb + Distilled Water
Without Advanced Image Support you're likely to fail (+5 over skill).
Arhiman Wing = 15000g, lost 15000g is exceptable?

[Rivant]

Hehehe of course I'd be mad if I lost a 15000gil item.. My highest craft is level 11. In some instances, wind crystal stacks alone cost as much as my ingredients. And when you consider that many of the synths at this level produce results that sell for as much as, or less than, your ingredients... when you break a synth sometimes not all the items are lost, so I see it as a "hey, I got to keep some ingredients and synth again!"

Obviously though at higher levels these numbers are not so negligable.

I guess there's a lot to learn. I typically never use image support. I just go by the guides and the level-ranges for different synths. if I'm not there yet, I don't do it, simply because, as a general rule, higher recipes = higher quality input items = wasting more money/harder to get

Of course there are some magical recipes out there that always sell well, and you can turn a profit on... so those might be worth getting image support for if you're low level, but I haven't run into all that many of those yet at my low levels.

[Mithrael]

I use image support until 3 levels under the recipe. So for Tiger Leather, i'll keep using advanced support until lv.57, then i'll use regular support until lv.58, then flying solo.

As a side note... Skill-ups come much slower now than they did. I successfully made 5-1/2 stacks of tiger leather the other day (i was at lv.54, tiger leather is a lv.61 recipe) and gained only 1.3 skill.

As far as the way skill gains go, i'm not willing to put on advanced support and make 100+ of the same thing to see if i actually get a skill gain for a recipe one level above me. 2 other 50+ crafters in my shell both say that you can't, but one person insists that you can. I don't have the time and resources to devote to such small skill gains.

In general, if you are capable of making a recipe, you will gain more skill for greater risk. So attempting something 10 levels above you will generally yield a mess and maybe one gain of .3 if you don't use support, while trying something 5 levels above you will yield a lot of blowups but more significant skill gains. Like was said before, that's not practical when your ingredients are already pushing your bottom line for profits to risk something 5 levels above you without support.

[Yuanlung]

My personal experience tells me that I gain skill more often on successful synths then failed ones. And I gain them mroe often doing harder things. This is why I only synth on the corresponding day, with image support.

I get to synth stuff harder then what I can normally do, and thus I get more skill ups. Also beingable to have the resulting good lowers cost a bit, more then enough to cover the cost of the image support itself.

[DrMrLordX]

I have toyed with the notion that adv image support affects skill gain rates, but personal experience has not yet supported that notion.

For point-of-reference, nodowa become "trivial" at blacksmithing 66, and I went from 56-66 blacksmithing on them, using advanced image support on every step of the way.

I tried making them without support a few times, and I found that it did not improve skill gain rates.

If you honestly want the fastest skill gain possible, turn on adv image support and craft on the day of your crystal while making something that is trivial at 10 skillpoints higher than your current skill level. Enjoy the failures *P This is often the only option available when things closer to your skill level(trivial at 5 points above current level or lower) have little or no resale value. You could wind up losing more money sinking tons of resources into successfully making unsellable crap than you could losing 90-100% of your components making something well above your skill level. I found that, with nodowa, it took me less than 15 synths per skill point from 56-58, but after that, it was maybe 20-30 per point until 62, and then maybe 40-50 per point to 66.

The only reason I kept making nodowa is that they didn't cost much to make and could be sold back at a tiny loss to NPC merchants. For blacksmithing 66-68, I'll probably have to do Darksteel Picks(trivial at 76 I believe). I'll probably be burning off 180k gil per skill point, BUT that beats making 50 hien per skill point and selling them off for maybe 3k apiece(if I'm lucky). 1 Hien costs me around 8k gil to make(slightly more actually), 50x8000 = 400000 gil, sell 50 hien for 3000 each(if I'm lucky), recover 150000 gil, total lost, 250k. Even though I'll succeed on every one I make, most likely.

So I lose 180k or 250k. whee *P Plus the Hien would take much, much longer to produce. Now, which, do you think I'm going to do?