Tree Saplings.....

[Ascendancy]

man their is some greedy people out their.....

eh, man there are some LAZY people out there. all these get your crafting to 60 and only lose 500 gil guides and all these get rich guides sure are making this game easy. do it yourself ffs. how much fun would the game be if everyone was level 75 and had all the best stuff?

[gizamaluke]

wow, just wow. i cant believe some of you people. "oh no, look at the plat nugget market, why would we tell you how to grow other stuff." you pretend like you told people how to grow plat nuggets in the first place. if people are planting tree cuttings, who wouldn't try 2 light crystals? i mean come on. plat nuggets are easy to make, period. and to tell you the truth, i cant wait to find out how to make the ore with the saplings, becuase i'm not going to hide it from everyone. if prices drop on my server..good! thats the point. that way the items used in the synth will be cheaper also. "i cant believe people are mining my zinc ore..prices have come down so much since i started playing" wah wah wah, all i hear is crying. if you dont want to play a game where other people can "ruin" your experience maybe you should stick to rpgs, instead of mmorpgs.

[DrMrLordX]

Gizamaluke, don't buy that hype about a reduction in cost of materials resulting in a reduction in the price of the finished product.

Nobody who's currently making the elemental staves will lower their prices if there's a sudden glut of elemental ore.

It takes an 80+ skill goldsmith to make the beads, then another 80+ skill woodworker to make the staff. I think? Anyway, it wouldn't be too hard for the few crafters with skill on that level to simply force the price of elemental ores down by refusing to buy the elemental ore for anything but a pathetically low price. They could still charge 1-2 million for the staves and get away with it. Who would stop them? Nobody, unless you could get your craft skills high enough to compete with them.

BUT if you want 80+ goldsmithing skill, you need a lot of money to get there. And where are you going to get this money if you can't sell your elemental ore that you just grew over a month's time for more than 100k apiece(if you're lucky)?

Between crafting, gobbie bag quests, moghouse expansion quests, and all the other money sinks in the game, it pays to take the time to get an enormous amount of gil to complete all these quests and buy nice equipment for yourself for when you go out to earn XP. Overall, it's better for prices on items on the Auction Houses of the world to stay high so that people who need to buy can farm items for gil(particularly stuff like black tiger fangs and other quest-reward items; these produce steady income no matter what the status of the marketplace) and those who can sell said items will earn all the gil farmed by other players. An economy full of gil, with high item prices, is good for crafters. And this IS a crafting forum is it not?

In any case, you can't rely on people's lives getting easier if prices drop on the AH. Eventually, prices will drop so low that people will stop selling things on the AH, period. They'll sell to NPC vendors first. Then you just won't have any money, AND you won't have any items to buy. Nobody will develop craft skills anymore, and nobody will waste their time crafting if they DO have the skills, because the results will only sell at a loss.

Ascendancy, as far as crafting guides go, I don't mind them at all. Having more high level crafters is overall better than having less, though it can have a negative effect upon the price of high-level equipment if said high-level crafters are also idiots and like to dump equipment at low prices when they don't even need to do so. The best thing about having lots of crafters around, though, is that they have a habit of buying up raw materials in large quantities. If you happen to be selling those raw materials, you can make a lot of money.

[gizamaluke]

well lets see if your theory is right. i checked the ores at the jeuno AH yesterday and surprisingly i found that there were 10+ of each being sold. prices had almost dropped in half. now, i'm sure someone has "leaked" the recipe and the market is now flooded. but, just like in almost all cases, i'm guessing just leaked on a japanese site, becuase i'm not seeing it any of the american sites i frequent. but soon enough, everyone will know the big secret. so, now lets watch the price of those elemental staves.

[DrMrLordX]

You don't need to watch. Just look at the prices of elemental staves on Midgardsormr. They're quite expensive, and I am told that a few(possibly one) goldsmiths there control the bead market. The only staff that has dropped in value on Midgardsormr is the Light Staff because a lot of prospective buyers of the Light Staff started buying the staff that drops from Roc instead. Light Staff prices were lowered to compete with the price of the other staff.

It's also not a theory. It's an observed pattern of pricing. The price of finished products is not often affected by the price of the raw materials needed to make the item, unless the price of the raw materials skyrockets to the point that the current accepted price on the finished product is lower than the total cost of the raw materials. The factors that control the price of the finished product are how many crafters can make them, how many WILL make them, and how many people want to buy the finished product.

In the case of the elemental staves, they're already making an enormous profit buying elemental ore at 500k per chunk and selling the staves for 1-2 million gil. All the people that can, and will, do this, already are. Do you think their decision to make elemental staves will be changed if the ore drops to 300k or 100k per chunk? Nah. You won't see any more staves being made than before, and you won't see the prices drop.

On Midgardsormr, we already had a small glut of light and dark ore, and ore prices dipped to 250k per chunk. Staff prices didn't drop, except for the Light Staff incident I mentioned above.

[gizamaluke]

although your theory seems pretty logical, its very wrong, at least on my server. its hard to even find a staff selling for over 500k, with the ice and fire staff selling right around that price range. lots of darks and lights being sold. tons of ore for sale. i know for a fact there is more than 1 high level goldsmith on my server. looks like there is a whole bunch to me. the ore is all selling around 300k. a HUGE price drop in staves and ore. so exactly what i said would happen already did, although, much quicker than i anticipated.

[kumaeru]

Originally posted by DrMrLordX
You don't need to watch. Just look at the prices of elemental staves on Midgardsormr. They're quite expensive, and I am told that a few(possibly one) goldsmiths there control the bead market. The only staff that has dropped in value on Midgardsormr is the Light Staff because a lot of prospective buyers of the Light Staff started buying the staff that drops from Roc instead. Light Staff prices were lowered to compete with the price of the other staff.

It's also not a theory. It's an observed pattern of pricing. The price of finished products is not often affected by the price of the raw materials needed to make the item, unless the price of the raw materials skyrockets to the point that the current accepted price on the finished product is lower than the total cost of the raw materials. The factors that control the price of the finished product are how many crafters can make them, how many WILL make them, and how many people want to buy the finished product.

In the case of the elemental staves, they're already making an enormous profit buying elemental ore at 500k per chunk and selling the staves for 1-2 million gil. All the people that can, and will, do this, already are. Do you think their decision to make elemental staves will be changed if the ore drops to 300k or 100k per chunk? Nah. You won't see any more staves being made than before, and you won't see the prices drop.

On Midgardsormr, we already had a small glut of light and dark ore, and ore prices dipped to 250k per chunk. Staff prices didn't drop, except for the Light Staff incident I mentioned above.

There are actually more than a few High lvl goldsmiths on Midgard, Fin being the craziest of them all.. XD. Japanese players have also lvled up their mule's synthing as well. Cccccccccccccc is also a high lvl Goldsmith who has also made Cursed Curiass. A friend of mine ("retail" player is also around lvl 93 goldsmith).

People have just been doing BCNM60 in the expansion BC's or BCNM30's in the qubia arena to get these ores. This also explains the drop in damascus ingot prices, and soon to be Haubergeon prices. There are quite a few HNM LS' now on Midgard, a few of them being North American. Biggest JP HNM LS' would be NewCompany (Of course..), RedLionKnights, and StartingOver. As more and more people hit lvl 70, everyone wants to "get rich fast", so they do BCNM30's.

Now because everyone does it prices drop. why? because they undersell the market because they want their items to sell first. This underselling of the market is what creates the dropping of prices until they stop being worthwhile to obtain.

Dark Ore prices did go down to around 300k each ore on Midgard AH, but now if you check again, it is back to 500k. And dark staffs selling at around 800k constantly.

[DrMrLordX]

Hmm, I wasn't aware that dark staves had dropped in price. That's a shame really. They're worth more than 800k dammit.

Oh well.

Kumaeru sort of proved my point, though. It's competition that drives prices down, not material costs. The staff prices aren't dropping because the materials dropped in price . . . it's because more people are making and selling the staves. You MIGHT be able to convince more crafters into making a particular item by making that particular item cheaper to synth, but that implies that there are more crafters out there who can make the staves that are not currently doing so.

I would imagine that, as more and more goldsmiths get up to the 90+ range, we'll see more elemental staves on the market at lower prices, no matter what happens to the cost of the ore.

I am glad to know that dark ore is back up to 500k per chunk, but it's rather depressing that the dark staves are still down at 800k each. Funny how the price of the raw materials needed to make said staves seems to have no impact on it's price.

And yes, Fin is pretty crazy. I thought he had sole control over the bead market, or very close to that. I guess that is no longer the case(and perhaps never was).